Hi Steve, Occasionally you and I see things differently, but on this, my friend we are in 100% agreement. Well said.
Mark at Aero 602 820-7894 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 10:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Back to back floor controls. You know, at some point we have to stop being sheep and take the initiative. I understand that the designer is subordinate to the directive of the engineer of record. But in this case the EOR is recommending something that I passionately and organically believe to be a bad practice. Installing unnecessary control valves adds potential failure links to the chain of events. Plus unnecessary first cost and unnecessary ongoing cost for maintenance of these redundant valves and supervisory devices. Someday, if one of those valves gets left shut and the system fails to control or suppress a fire, and heaven forbid somebody should be injured or killed, the designer and everyone else associated with the project will get sued. There is no good reason to add those valves to system configured as described. Talking about whether check valves or flow switches are required just adds to the level of obscuration. To me the issue should be how best to stand up to the idiot who is specifying this arrangement. Steve Leyton (Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.) -------- Original message -------- From: John Denhardt <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Date: 11/6/18 11:49 PM (GMT+03:00) To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: Back to back floor controls. I agree. Check valves are required. John John August Denhardt, P.E. Strickland Fire Protection On Nov 6, 2018, at 3:41 PM, Mike Stossel <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: If I am understanding you question correctly, check valves are required. 8.16.1.5 Floor Control Valve Assemblies. 8.16.1.5.1* Multistory buildings exceeding two stories in height shall be provided with a floor control valve, check valve, main drain valve, and flow switch for isolation, control, and annunciation of water flow on each floor level. Mike Stossel SET <image002.png> 36 Barren Road East Stroudsburg, PA 18302 Office: 973-670-2627 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Fpdcdesign Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 3:38 PM To: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Back to back floor controls. I am working on an existing two story plus attic wood frame building. The engineer is requiring zone control assemblies (butterfly valve plus riser manifold) for every level including the attic. I have designed it so there is a bull head tee at the top of a 4" riser with the assemblies on either side of the tee. Given that the flow switches are going to be in close proximity, should I install a check valve between the butterfly valve and the manifold? Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080 (ofc) 860-553-3553 (fax) 860-608-4559 (cell) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwMF-g&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=dLwiR71i_XhSFqam3ZLeaFLiQJ3cDTUB0ReB4-yDDcg&m=AKRiqOJP41XYwX8V63Z7k1sq-QF9pscYmMfZpODbrYM&s=e20UzOalQKovft1L40sJRl9vCkN0c5bGsdoLNh8rJYg&e=>
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