It seems like this is a question for State/Local Codes and any amendments or modifications. I don’t know of anything in NFPA that restricts this.
> > On Jul 26, 2022 at 2:07 PM, <Anthony Carrizosa > (mailto:[email protected])> wrote: > > > > > > Agreed, it’s mainly the Architect that wants to verify this. Because the > floor separating the garage and store protrudes into the vestibule and has > two sprinklers on a line from the garage system covering below this floor > area within the vestibule, they are looking for confirmation that it’s not > required to be separate. > > > > Like you said earlier we do this within stairs when protecting the landings > or below the lowest landing, we feed these sprinklers from the floor at that > level. > > > > > > > > Thanks again for your input. > > > > > > > > Anthony Carrizosa > > > > Project Manager | Fire Protection > > > > 7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032 > > > > Cell: 206-679-5283 | Office: 253-872-7222 > > > > > > > > https://archerconstruction.com > (https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2farcherconstruction.com%2f&c=E,1,Wdb65AWzMgSBzW3HDw91SfcRQCtxDUQKoJf-UowQ-WnB_WMosgG-8W7eLePJ42PwWQvLiQx16Pls052VqwHO7tKm-_u5AnWly0ewkNiMkxn-AjQb1JI,&typo=1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Leyton <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2022 10:35 AM > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > <[email protected]> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Do separate fire areas require sprinkler > system to be separated > > > > > > > > > > In situations where we’re directed to undertake a design element that I don’t > agree with, or informed that something is required or not allowed, I always > ask for the fire or building official to cite the section number they are > relying on. The two floors are separate fire areas and the configuration > of a high-rise sprinkler system already addresses that. And protection > of the opening in the fire separation – in this case the floor assembly – is > also spelled out in the code. If they’re asking for more than opening > protection, they should be able to cite the code section that prescribes > whatever they’re looking for. If they say you have to have a separate > sprinkler system on one or the other floor because of a fire separation, ask > them where they’re getting that as well. > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > From: Anthony Carrizosa <[email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])> > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2022 10:28 AM > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > <[email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Do separate fire areas require sprinkler > system to be separated > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion is much appreciated and falls in line with what I am thinking as > well. Just hoping to find some verbiage that could satisfy them. > > > > I may bring out the NFPA requirement on system size limitation in 8.2 > System Protection Area Limitations. and then 8.2.3 that each floor can have > multiple hazards protected by the same system as long as the limitations in > square footage of the highest hazard are not exceeded and or the total system > area does not exceed the maximum for the lighter hazard. > > > > > > > > Thanks again for your input. > > > > > > > > Anthony Carrizosa > > > > Project Manager | Fire Protection > > > > 7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032 > > > > Cell: 206-679-5283 | Office: 253-872-7222 > > > > > > > > https://archerconstruction.com > (https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2farcherconstruction.com%2f&c=E,1,Wdb65AWzMgSBzW3HDw91SfcRQCtxDUQKoJf-UowQ-WnB_WMosgG-8W7eLePJ42PwWQvLiQx16Pls052VqwHO7tKm-_u5AnWly0ewkNiMkxn-AjQb1JI,&typo=1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Leyton <[email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])> > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2022 10:14 AM > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > <[email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Do separate fire areas require sprinkler > system to be separated > > > > > > > > > > To my knowledge, it does not. Look at a typical stair shaft – it’s > 2-hour and we sprinkler stair landings and arrange floor control assemblies > and pass in and out of that shaft on each floor in mid- and high-rise > buildings all the time. I think you sprinkler the spaces at the lower > level from the lower level system and penetrate into any vestibule that you > may have to build at the bottom of your escalators. The market above is > controlled by the sprinkler system on that floor above. > > > > > > > > I have to add the disclaimer that as a former member of the NFPA technical > committee on fire sprinklers, all of the information we’ve exchanged is my > opinion only. And as a consultant who’s client roster is mostly > architects, this is something that the architect of record should assess and > specify. The sprinkler design is subordinate to the building code > requirements, AS INTERPRETED by the building official. So if somebody > up the food chain is saying it has to be a separate fire area, or just > separated by something more than opening projection, then the architect is > responsible for sorting that, and the sprinkler design can be done pursuant > to finalizing the configuration. HOWEVER… openings are allowed in > floor assemblies with adequate protection, so it should also be investigated > whether or not a water curtain and requisite smoke barriers will be > acceptable to the building official. > > > > > > > > Steve Leyton > > > > Remember, MY OPINION ONLY. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Anthony Carrizosa <[email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])> > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2022 10:03 AM > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > <[email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Do separate fire areas require sprinkler > system to be separated > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Fire Sprinkler protection question. They are asking if the fire > sprinkler system also needs to be separate per Fire Area. I know it typically > does not have to be separate and our system can span across two different > fire areas, we just have to protect our penetrations. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anthony Carrizosa > > > > Project Manager | Fire Protection > > > > 7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032 > > > > Cell: 206-679-5283 | Office: 253-872-7222 > > > > > > > > https://archerconstruction.com > (https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2farcherconstruction.com%2f&c=E,1,Wdb65AWzMgSBzW3HDw91SfcRQCtxDUQKoJf-UowQ-WnB_WMosgG-8W7eLePJ42PwWQvLiQx16Pls052VqwHO7tKm-_u5AnWly0ewkNiMkxn-AjQb1JI,&typo=1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Leyton <[email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])> > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2022 9:46 AM > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > <[email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Do separate fire areas require sprinkler > system to be separated > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like they’re asking for a vestibule or some sort of enclosure, but I’m > not going to speculate. Are you asking this in the context of fire > sprinkler protection or general building code requirements? > > > > > > > > Steve L. > > > > > > > > > > From: Anthony Carrizosa <[email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])> > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2022 8:57 AM > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > <[email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Do separate fire areas require sprinkler > system to be separated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Per the Architect: Their scope was to create a separation between QFC and the > parking garage as they are both part of the same base building. Separating > the two areas into separate fire areas was reviewed and ultimately approved > by City of Kirkland as the means to achieve this scope. > > > > They have interpreted that if we separate the spaces into different fire > areas, the fire alarm will need to be separated and are asking if the fire > sprinkler system also needs to be separate. > > > > > > > > Any ideas? I don’t think the fire sprinkler system needs to be separated but > they are asking me to confirm. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Anthony Carrizosa > > > > Project Manager | Fire Protection > > > > 7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032 > > > > Cell: 206-679-5283 | Office: 253-872-7222 > > > > > > > > https://archerconstruction.com > (https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2farcherconstruction.com%2f&c=E,1,Wdb65AWzMgSBzW3HDw91SfcRQCtxDUQKoJf-UowQ-WnB_WMosgG-8W7eLePJ42PwWQvLiQx16Pls052VqwHO7tKm-_u5AnWly0ewkNiMkxn-AjQb1JI,&typo=1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Steve Leyton <[email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])> > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2022 8:42 AM > To: [email protected] > (mailto:[email protected]) > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Do separate fire areas require sprinkler > system to be separated > > > > > > > > > > The building code requires that high-rise sprinkler systems be controlled and > the waterflow/tamper alarms be annunciated per floor, but not fire area on a > given floor. You are describing a situation that requires opening > protection because of the floor-to-floor penetration, which in and of itself > doesn’t create a separate “fire area” but does communicate between different > floors. If you end up placing a water curtain around the opening at the > lower level, it should be supplied by the floor control assembly for that > floor. The market above is supplied by its floor control assembly. > > > > > > > > Hope that I’m understanding your question, > > > > > > > > Steve L. > > > > > > > > > > From: Anthony Carrizosa <[email protected] > (mailto:[email protected])> > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2022 8:33 AM > To: [email protected] > (mailto:[email protected]) > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Do separate fire areas require sprinkler system > to be separated > > > > > > > > > > We are working on a high rise building were the below grade parking has a > grocery store above on the grade floor, an escalator/stairs provides access > between the garage and the store and has a non-rated enclosure around it. The > Architect is now saying that it needs to be rated and is asking if since > there will now be two separate fire areas does the fire sprinkler system need > to be separated along with the fire alarm system? > > > > > > > > I cant find anything in the IBC that clearly states one system is acceptable > or that two separate systems are required. Anyone have any thoughts on this? > > > > > > > > > > > > Anthony Carrizosa > > > > Project Manager | Fire Protection > > > > 7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032 > > > > Cell: 206-679-5283 | Office: 253-872-7222 > > > > > > > > https://archerconstruction.com > (https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2farcherconstruction.com%2f&c=E,1,Wdb65AWzMgSBzW3HDw91SfcRQCtxDUQKoJf-UowQ-WnB_WMosgG-8W7eLePJ42PwWQvLiQx16Pls052VqwHO7tKm-_u5AnWly0ewkNiMkxn-AjQb1JI,&typo=1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anthony Carrizosa | Fire Protection Estimator / Project Manager > > > > 7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032 > > > > Cell: 206-679-5283 | Office: 253-872-7222 > > > > > > > > > > > > https://archerconstruction.com > (https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2farcherconstruction.com%2f&c=E,1,uOFpKnXoKAqtsbPiPnEzK69II4nW0DEqGmpOCB6ra0lazLcQJDB699ihE90BpKZsk-5CqI67z4Qt41O5eVR5sjrtKYEHmJFPpsUyv8GUYda3YO3g&typo=1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum > mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >
_________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
