Being semi/mostly out of the game I don't keep as up-to-date as I maybe should be and so I don't have too many standards left having donated many to those still in need. So my question is where is the requirement mentioned? 13, 24, 25, all? That should be a guide as to who is ultimately responsible for the installation. In Washington, it could be the UG guy since they have to have special licensure based on a knowledge of 24 but arguably not the responsible party if it's not a thing in 24 (hence my question). Regardless there is a requirement and someone has to provide a method, but your question seemed to be rhetorical so lots of ways to cook the cat.
On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 2:49 PM Timothy Goins <tgo...@rgv.rr.com> wrote: > AWWA used to NOT recommend BPA upstream of fire hydrants. > > Haven’t checked in a few years now. > > And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; > and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an > heart of flesh > Eze 11:19 > > On Nov 18, 2022, at 4:25 PM, Bob Caputo <bcap...@firesprinkler.org> wrote: > > > > Backflow preventers are actually not always required. NFPA standards do > not require them – but where the water purveyor does, NFPA provides > installation requirements. When a back flow is required, the type and > location are the purview of the water district. > > > > If arranged to allow full forward flow, a hydrant or even the annual fire > pump test or standpipe flow testing could qualify as the means to perform a > forward flow test > > > > > > *Bob Caputo, CFPS* > > *President* > > *American Fire Sprinkler Association* > > c: 760-908-7753 > > p: > > 214-349-5965 ext124 > > w: > > firesprinkler.org > > <https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/> > <https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/> > <https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/> > > > > *Stronger Together – We help solve problems with you, at any point in your > project timeline!* > > *Are you a member with a technical question? *Don't forget one of the > most valuable resources that AFSA provides is Technical Reviews by our > Technical Services Department. It’s like having an FPE on your staff. Visit > www.firesprinkler.org/technicalreview to submit a question today! (Member > login required.) > > > > *From:* Michael Slaughter <mslaugh...@pflugervillefire.org> > *Sent:* Friday, November 18, 2022 4:14 PM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> > *Cc:* e...@bamfordfire.com > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: BFP on underground supply > > > > FYI, > > > > A question from an AHJ. In many cases, we receive a dedicated underground > fire line to serve fire hydrants and the building fire sprinkler system. > (Domestic if provided through a separate line) > > > > When this occurs, the local water authorities always require a backflow > (in an underground vault) to separate the public water supply from the > private water system. > > > > With this approach, we do not require a backflow on the riser and use the > yard hydrant system for the forward flow testing of the backflow. > > > > Does anyone see an issue with this approach? If so, please advise we can > revise our procedure. > > > > Mike Slaughter > > Risk Reduction Division > > Travis County Emergency Services District 2 > > Office: (512) 989-4531 > > mslaugh...@pflugervillefire.org > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 4:03 PM Bob Caputo <bcap...@firesprinkler.org> > wrote: > > So, why would it matter where the backflow preventer is located? NFPA is > clear in the requirement to provide a forward flow test connection. If the > backflow is in a vault or a pit, the intent is still clear. I am the > current chair of NFPA 24, and I think most members would agree this > connection is better located on the control riser – but there is no > restriction on where you place this connection. NFPA 13, chapter 6 is a > direct extract of underground installation requirements, provided so > installer/maintainers don’t even have to purchase a copy of NFPA 24. > > > > Are we a solution in search of a problem on this one? > > > > Bob > > > > > > <~WRD0000.jpg> > > *Bob Caputo, CFPS* > > *President* > > *American Fire Sprinkler Association* > > c: 760-908-7753 > > p: > > 214-349-5965 ext124 > > w: > > firesprinkler.org > > <https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/> > <~WRD0000.jpg> <https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/> > > <~WRD0000.jpg> > <https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224> > <~WRD0000.jpg> > > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/> > > <~WRD0000.jpg> > <https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/> > > > > *Stronger Together – We help solve problems with you, at any point in your > project timeline!* > > *Are you a member with a technical question? *Don't forget one of the > most valuable resources that AFSA provides is Technical Reviews by our > Technical Services Department. It’s like having an FPE on your staff. Visit > www.firesprinkler.org/technicalreview to submit a question today! (Member > login required.) > > > > *From:* Ed Kramer <e...@bamfordfire.com> > *Sent:* Friday, November 18, 2022 11:19 AM > *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] BFP on underground supply > > > > NFPA 13 is pretty clear that some method of forward flow testing a fire > sprinkler system backflow preventer shall be provided. If the BFP is > located at the system riser (very common in these parts), we provide the > required means. > > > > So, who is responsible for providing the means if the BFP is located in a > pit on the underground fire service, and the UG fire service (along with > the pit/BFP) is “by others”? From a practical viewpoint, it’s easy enough > for us to provide that at our system riser, but are we required to do so? > Or does that responsibility fall on whomever installs the BFP? I’ve not > seen this addressed anywhere in bid/contract documents. > > > > Ed Kramer > > Bamford Fire > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to > sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org > > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to > sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to > sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org
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