Rule of thumb: if the number of sprinklers on the outrigger is less than 1/2 the number on a single line in the remote area, you do not need to calc the outrigger. Caveat: the outriggers are the same size as the grid lines.
> > On Feb 20, 2023 at 8:07 AM, <Greg McGahan > (mailto:g...@genesisfireservices.com)> wrote: > > > > <div dir="ltr">Personally, I have always calculated the outriggers because > sometimes they are more demanding. If a designer reduces the spacing between > the sprinklers on the outriggers to make up for the distance against the > wall, this can force you to pick up extra heads in the same Sq Ft area. It > takes a couple of minutes to be sure and I have busted people in review where > the calcs did not work.<div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div > class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Feb 18, 2023 at > 11:31 PM Travis Mack <<a > href="mailto:t.m...@mepcad.com";>t.m...@mepcad.com</a>> > wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px > 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div> > <div> <div> <div dir="ltr">With the modern software systems it’s quite > simple. You just put as many design areas in the plan as needed to find the > most demanding. It’s not like we are doing hand calcs and taking hours to do > them. It is generally only a few seconds to a few minutes to put a calc area > on a system. </div> </div> <div > id="m_5928905367855063360ms-outlook-mobile-signature"> <div><br> </div> > <div dir="ltr"> <p > style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Travis Mack, > SET</p> <p > style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><span > style="color:rgb(31,56,100)">M.E.P.CAD</span></b><span > style="color:rgb(31,56,100)"><span> </span></span>|<span> > </span><b></b></p> <p > style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span > dir="ltr" style="color:currentcolor">181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I > Henderson, NV 89074</span></p> <p > style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a > href="http://www.mepcad.com/"; style="color:rgb(0,120,212)" > target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">www.mepcad.com</span></a><span > style="color:black"><span> </span>|<span> </span><b>m:<span> > </span><span dir="ltr" > style="color:currentcolor">480.547.9348</span></b></span></p> <p > style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><span > style="color:black"> </span></b></p> <p > style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><span > style="color:rgb(31,56,100)">AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | > AlarmCAD</span></b><b><span style="color:rgb(31,56,100)"></span></b></p> <p > style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><span > style="color:black"> </span></b></p> <p > style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Book > appointment time in my calendar</p> <p > style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a > href="https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad"; style="color:rgb(0,120,212)" > target="_blank"><span > style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad</span></a></p> > <br> </div> </div> </div> <hr > style="display:inline-block;width:98%"> <div > id="m_5928905367855063360divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, > sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Rick Matsuda > <<a href="mailto:rick26...@gmail.com"; > target="_blank">rick26...@gmail.com</a>><br> <b>Sent:</b> Saturday, > February 18, 2023 1:23:12 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a > href="mailto:vi...@wtfp.net"; target="_blank">vi...@wtfp.net</a> <<a > href="mailto:vi...@wtfp.net"; target="_blank">vi...@wtfp.net</a>>; > Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <<a > href="mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org"; > target="_blank">sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org</a>><br> > <b>Subject:</b> [Sprinklerforum] Re: Once upon a grid...</font> <div> > </div> </div> <div> <div dir="auto"> <div dir="ltr"></div> <div > dir="ltr">The rule is…you must calculate the “hydraulically most demanding > area” which is often difficult to determine. </div> <div > dir="ltr">Rick</div> <div dir="ltr"><br> <blockquote type="cite">On Feb > 18, 2023, at 2:11 PM, Vince Sabolik <<a href="mailto:vi...@wtfp.net"; > target="_blank">vi...@wtfp.net</a>> wrote:<br> <br> </blockquote> > </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr"> Thanks Rick -<br> I > fully understand the hydraulic stuff, but I was hoping to be able to point to > a<br> rule somewhere. <br> <br> <div>On 2/18/2023 2:53 PM, Rick Matsuda > wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr"><span>It’s > hydraulics. If you have a remote area in the middle of the grid, then water > is flowing to the sprinklers from both mains. If the remote area has four > sprinklers on each branchline, then two sprinklers are fed from each main. If > you have six sprinklers on each branchline, then three sprinklers are fed > from each main. </span><br> <span>As a plan reviewer, I required an > additional remote area to be calculated if there was more than half the > number of sprinklers on deadend “outriggers” if all the branchline pipes were > the same size. The deadend lines are hydraulically more demanding. > </span><br> <span>I also required additional remote areas if you down-sized > the outrigger piping. </span><br> <span></span><br> <span>Rule of thumb > for you…don’t put more than half the number of sprinklers from the width of > the remote area on an outrigger and don’t change the outrigger pipe sizes. > </span><br> <span>Rick Matsuda</span></div> <div dir="ltr"><br> > <blockquote type="cite">On Feb 18, 2023, at 1:43 PM, Vince Sabolik <a > href="mailto:vi...@wtfp.net"; target="_blank"> <vi...@wtfp.net></a> > wrote:<br> <br> </blockquote> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div > dir="ltr"> Thanks Mike -<br> <br> That sure would explain a lot of > uncalculated three head outboards that I've seen,<br> but I was hoping > for a written down rule somewhere.<br> <br> <div>On 2/18/2023 2:00 PM, > Mike Morey wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div> <div> > <div dir="ltr"><span > style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">I > was always told it was half the number of heads per line in the remote area. > Theory being roughly half the water goes each way back to the mains anyways, > so half the heads was half the water that one direction.</span><br> </div> > </div> <div id="m_5928905367855063360x_x_ms-outlook-mobile-signature"> > <div><br> </div> <p > style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><i><span > style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Mike > Morey</span></i></b></p> <p > style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><i><span > style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:16px;color:rgb(79,79,79)">CFPS > 3229 • NICET S.E.T. 123677</span></i></p> <p > style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><span > style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:18px;color:black">Project > Manager</span></b><span > style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:18px;color:black"><span> > </span>• Fire Protection Group</span><b><span > style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:20px"><br> > Shambaugh & Son, LP<span> </span></span></b><i><span > style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:16px;color:teal">an > EMCOR Company</span></i></p> <p > style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span > style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:16px;color:rgb(95,95,95)"><span > dir="ltr">7614 Opportunity Drive • Fort Wayne, IN</span><span> </span>• > 46825</span></p> <p > style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><span > style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:18px;color:black">direct<span> > </span></span></b><span > style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:18px;color:black"><span > dir="ltr">260.487.7824</span><b><span> </span>/ cell<span> > </span></b><span dir="ltr">260.417.0625</span><b><span> </span>/ fax<span> > </span></b><span dir="ltr">260.487.7991</span><b><br> email<span> > </span></b><span dir="ltr"><a href="mailto:mmo...@shambaugh.com"; > target="_blank">mmo...@shambaugh.com</a></span></span><span > style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:20px;color:black"><br> > </span><br> </p> </div> </div> </blockquote> <div> <div> > <address><font size="+1"><span><b>Vince Sabolik</b></span></font></address> > <div> <div> <address><font size="+1"></font></address> > <address><span><b>West Tech Fire Protection, > Inc.</b></span><b><span></span></b><span><br> </span></address> > <address><span>11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio > 44136</span><span></span></address> <div > id="m_5928905367855063360x_x_41625.4580461343"> <div> <address></address> > </div> <address></address> <div> <address><span>Phone 440 238-4800 > Fax 440 238-4876 Cell 440 724-7601</span><span></span></address> </div> > </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <span></span><br> > <span>_________________________________________________________</span><br> > <span>SprinklerForum mailing list:</span><br> <span><a > href="https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org"; > > target="_blank">https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org</a></span><br> > <span>To unsubscribe send an email to <a > href="mailto:sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org"; target="_blank"> > sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org</a></span></div> </blockquote> > <br> <fieldset></fieldset> > <pre>_________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum > mailing list: <a > href="https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org"; > > target="_blank">https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org</a> > To unsubscribe send an email to <a > href="mailto:sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org"; > target="_blank">sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org</a></pre> > </blockquote> <br> <div>-- <br> <div> <address></address> </div> > </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <div><img > src="cid:1866eec686c109ea7011"> </div> <div dir="auto"> <blockquote > type="cite"> <div dir="ltr"> <div> <div> <address><br> <br> <font > size="+1"><span><b>Vince Sabolik</b></span></font></address> <div> <div> > <address><font size="+1"></font></address> <address><span><b>West Tech > Fire Protection, Inc.</b></span><b><span></span></b><span><br> > </span></address> <address><span>11351 Pearl Road / Strongsville, Ohio > 44136</span><span></span></address> <div > id="m_5928905367855063360x_x_41625.4580461343"> <div> <address></address> > </div> <address></address> <div> <address><span>Phone 440 238-4800 > Fax 440 238-4876 Cell 440 724-7601</span><span></span></address> </div> > </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <span></span><br> > <span>_________________________________________________________</span><br> > <span>SprinklerForum mailing list:</span><br> <span><a > href="https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org"; > > target="_blank">https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org</a></span><br> > <span>To unsubscribe send an email to <a > href="mailto:sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org"; > target="_blank">sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org</a></span></div> > </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> <br> > _________________________________________________________<br> SprinklerForum > mailing list:<br> <a > href="https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org"; > rel="noreferrer" > target="_blank">https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org</a><br> > To unsubscribe send an email to <a > href="mailto:sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org"; > target="_blank">sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org</a></blockquote></div><br > clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" > class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" > style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96)">Greg > McGahan<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" > style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96)"><b>Genesis Fire > Services, LLC</b></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" > style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><b><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96)">4912 > Glover Lane. Milton, FL </span></b><b><span > style="color:rgb(0,0,102)">32570</span></b><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" > style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><b><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96)">P- > 850-637-8535<u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" > style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><b><span style="color:rgb(0,32,96)">C- > 850-712-9555</span></b></p></div></div> > _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum > mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org > >
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