Jay, your email below is superb. It's dispassionate, accurate, diplomatic, and informative.
I was also disappointed to see this email list go the way of so many others over the past day or so, but it's easy enough to fix it. Stop calling someone else a doofus for selecting a particular OS to work with, stop using the word "sucks" to describe a deficiency in the build system and instead offer constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement (as Jay does below), and stop calling people trolls even if their email is a bit of a flame. In the short time I've subscribed to this list, I've been amazed at the technical acumen of the people who reply to questions. The replies I've gotten for my questions--even stupid ones--have been very helpful, and some of the in-depth discussions of particular features (like iterating over chunks of blobs) are fascinating. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay A. Kreibich" <j...@kreibi.ch> To: "Jay A. Kreibich" <j...@kreibi.ch> Cc: "General Discussion of SQLite Database" <sqlite-users@sqlite.org> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [sqlite] Installing SQLite > > Grrr.... I didn't meant to send this just yet. But since I did, I > guess I need to finish it. > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 10:50:37AM -0500, Jay A. Kreibich scratched > on the wall: >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 09:46:24AM -0400, Wilson, Ron P scratched >> on the wall: >> >> > I think the OP just has the wrong expectations. >> >> Yes, and no. While SQLite doesn't have a one-click-to-install >> download, I have to agree that the current build and distribution >> state of SQLite is... let's just say "less than ideal." I've >> been >> writing a lot of documentation on just this issue, and unless you >> want a perfect vanilla install, there are definitely a lot of >> hoops >> you have to jump through compared to most open-source projects of >> similar design. >> >> A few versions ago we transitioned from a traditional UNIX style >> project, complete with "configure" script, to having the >> amalgamation >> be the "standard" distribution. I've always felt like that >> transition is incomplete, and we've never gotten back to where we >> were before. >> >> The amalgamation works well enough if what you want is mostly >> defaults. The issue is that, while you can change a few of the >> #defines for numeric defaults, most of the more interesting build >> options won't work with the amalgamation. Only that's it. As >> the >> website clearly states, there is no other supported option. > > The "by the file" distribution is bad enough, but you're totally > out > of luck if you need to go to the tree for some of the really > complex > build options. Of course, the "by the file" distribution is there > and available for download because a lot of people still need it, > but > apparently not enough to justify keeping it updated. That's a bit > of > a contradiction... for a piece of software that prides itself on > its > testing systems, the end-users sees a whole lot of "there but not > supported; it might work it might not; you're on your own" stuff. > That's normally a big red flag in my book. Stuff should be there, > be > supported, and be documented, or it shouldn't. The current > situation > is only easily understandable if you've been following SQLite for a > few > years. > > And the OP is right... the build docs suck. There are no build > docs > for most downloads, just a archive file with source. No Makefiles, > no > nothing. There is no "how to build" on the documentation page > (just > docs on build options) and the Wiki pages on building and the > amalgamation are so out of date that they have negative value, > doing > little more than confusing people. > > I realize that you might take the argument that anyone smart enough > need to build the SQLite engine into an application should be able > to > figure that out, and with enough time, maybe that's right a fair > percentage of the time. On the other hand, the whole point of > moving > to the amalgamation was to simplify putting SQLite into an > application. I think overall it does this, but only if you're > working from the default everything. The amalgamation might be > easier or better (for some definition of those terms) if you > understand it, but it is radically different from nearly every > other > open source project out there. A bit of hand holding, even for > experienced developers, is not out of place. > > SQLite is a great product, but there is still a lot of room for > improvement on the packaging, distribution, and "productization" > of the code. > > > And even if his post was a bit negative, I'm a little disappointed > at > the community response. We're here to help, not criticize. If > that > was my introduction to the product and its users, you can be sure I > wouldn't be coming back. If you're not going to try to add > something > to the conversation, there is no obligation to hit reply. > > -j > > > -- > Jay A. Kreibich < J A Y @ K R E I B I.C H > > > "Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We > have > a protractor." "I'll go home and see if I can scrounge up a ruler > and a piece of string." --from Anathem by Neal Stephenson > _______________________________________________ > sqlite-users mailing list > sqlite-users@sqlite.org > http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users _______________________________________________ sqlite-users mailing list sqlite-users@sqlite.org http://sqlite.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users
