Dear Dr Paul TLUD and Crispin.Let us agree on one thing about TLUD, it is not a name of a type of a stove, It's more a description how you ignite the fuel in the stove. So there can be doubt about if your Champion stove in that context is a real TLUD. It can easy be ignited from the bottom through the primary air intake. And most people will probably do that. Tom Reeds FD and Peko Pe-ND and some few others is real "TLUDs" It is not possible to ignite from the bottom. Any way it is now accepted as a name of a specific stove.
In Norway we have had cast iron wood fuel stoves for cooking and heating connected to chimney for 200 years. Mostly all of them where ignited from underneath of the fuel, with a lot of smoke, soot and tar and in the chimney. In my cast-iron stove I started ignite from top of the fuel and got a complete different combustion with out any smoke, soot and tar in the chimney. I learned this during 2nd WW when we were hunting illegally and had to make up fire for cooking without smoke.
We had also some circular coal stoves for heating 50 years ago. They were ignited with firewood on top of the fuel..
In Masindi Forestry Training Centre in Uganda in 1996 we tested the Peko Pe with
charcoal and it performed about 20% better than the improved charcoal stove. And another test comparison 1kg charcoal in charcoal stove and ½ kg straw in the Peko Pe. One litre of water was boiling before charcoal was ignited with same amount of of straw..
With regards Paal W----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul S. Anderson" <[email protected]> To: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <[email protected]>; "STOVES - Listserve" <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [Stoves] Questions on coal-burning possible TLUD
Chrispin, Thanks for the thoughful response. -- Quoting Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <[email protected]>:Dear Paul Coal is compressed biomass.Yes it is. And biomass is simply sunlight transformed by plants.Let's not be simplistic about this. The Silver is a fossil fuel burner. And coal and biomass are very distinct as fuel, regardless of their origin from sunlight plus C and H and O and a bit more.And your information leads me to have little interest. ($200, heavy, high-internal heat would pyrolyze biomass in perhaps irregular ways, nobody is using it with biomass - because it is not intended for biomass and the Turkish users have learned that lesson well)So, let's not get excited as if this recognition of a stove from Turkey will alter the past, present or future of TLUD cookstoves. TLUD stoves (as a NAME, not as a process) have characteristics that go beyond top lit and updraft, and the name refers to devices that use biomass, not fossil fuels.In my opinion, the "Silver" unit is a very nice distraction from all the work being done on biomass burning TLUDs and other micro-gasifiers. I hope that someone spends a few years full-time with this (and related) coal-burning technologies and makes some great advances. But as it stands now, the discovery or re-discovery of this Turkey product will have minimal impact on the progress needed for the Global Alliance for Clean Cookstoves.I can hope that someone will show that I am incorrect. Paul -- Paul S. Anderson, PhD Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: [email protected]Good explanation and thanks for the photos. Certainly seems like areasonable heater and stove. It has problems which are easily rectified. The casting quality is really high.1. I will distinguish the "Silver" stove based on it being a coal burner.It should be able to burn any really dense fuel. If it was small enough, itmight do with small pellets.I believe the Silver is substantially larger in diameter of fuel chamberthan is John's. It is taller and larger, for a total of about twice the maximum capacity,however it is not the smallest model. I tested the middle-sized one for the reason that it was the smallest one that has a round hole on top to accept awok.2. In what way would the Silver NOT be accomplishing what we all seekPrice and availability are issues, plus the tweaks that will be need to make it a super stove. It is nearly there. Rumour has it the price is in the $200range....appropriate for Mongolia or even the High Veldt of South Africa wherecoal is abundant Well coal is used if far more places than that. Hundreds of millions of people cook and heat with coal from Eastern Europe to Vietnam.3. This Silver stove needs further study, meaning access to the devices.We want to see and know that the top-ignited fuel does create a migrating pyrolysis front (MPF for short, not as a name).I don't see that micro-classifying it is important. It is just another batch loaded TLUD. It might even work well with dung because it is large enough togenerate meaningful heat.Much more about its emissions needs to be promptly known and, if low, berecognized.The emissions are about 99% lower than the baseline stove, somewhat higher than the (cheaper) GTZ 7.5 which is the only other stove that burns in thatcategory.4. Would this Silver unit function with dry biomass? If not, why not.The main reason would be the overheating of the chamber. I suspect that asit gets so hot there would be over-running gas generation if thermalconductivity turns out to be too high. It is not a big issue in that it isnot advertised or intended as a wood stove anyway.And if successful, why does it take until 2011 to recognize this, but NOTuse it with wood anywhere? You only find what you are looking for, perhaps?Have the 53 years of users been somehow missing such an observation?Well it certainly was not missed in Turkey! Other than the fuel dumping mechanism (which is integrated to the grateshaking mechanism) there is nothing special about it. We have an issue withit (like all batch stoves) which is that it can't be refuelled when it ishot without creating massive smoke. It has to be cooled first. Will peoplewait?? Simply turning it upside down to made a bottom lit downdraft stove wouldcure that and might even reduce emissions further. This disadvantage thereis the cooking efficiency drops. For space heating it is looking like a no-brainer. Regards Crispin---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail _______________________________________________ The Stoves list has moved to [email protected] - please update your email contacts to reflect the change. Please visit BioEnergy Discussion Lists http://info.bioenergylists.org/ Thank you, Stoves Administrator http://stoves.bioenergylists.org http://info.bioenergylists.org UNSUBSCRIBE HERE; http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_listserv.repp.org
_______________________________________________ The Stoves list has moved to [email protected] - please update your email contacts to reflect the change. Please visit BioEnergy Discussion Lists http://info.bioenergylists.org/ Thank you, Stoves Administrator http://stoves.bioenergylists.org http://info.bioenergylists.org UNSUBSCRIBE HERE; http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_listserv.repp.org
