Dear Ronald, Thanks for the timely questions below. Both Paal and I have experienced some of this situations in real life in Africa, wherby local people hesitated to remove the oil producing plant Lantana due to the fact it was giving headaques and burning wounds on their skins thouching the scrub by cutting it with a machete. These are very IMPORTANT questions, since we are talking about household energy and NOT biofuels for diesel engines.
There has been som incidents of complains among busdrivers in Norway using biofuel mixed into their diesel supply, about headaques and "bad" smells from the emmissions. I just wonder.............?? Otto > From: Ronald Hongsermeier [[email protected]] > Sent: 2011-01-26 12:13:08 MET > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves [[email protected]] > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Heat destroys Jatropha toxins Re: jatropha, stoves, > and biochar. > > Dear Paul, > > The quote you shared is admittedly to the point, but since we're trying > to be careful here, can we agree that your quote was somewhat vague? I > would submit, for instance, that there are also arguably safe handling > procedures and technologies for dealing with nuclear fuels, but these > are not widely available at subsistence household budgetary levels. Your > quote makes me wonder if there are any products of reactions from > "denaturing" or "fermentation" (which is talked about in the rest of the > paragraph you abridged with your quotation) which would benefit the > total cost equation favorably. If not, this leads to the further > question as to whether these processes are sustainably feasible. > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > apologies for the formatting::::::::::::::::::: > "...can inactivate the above toxic components. > Extraction with 80-90% ethanol > or methanol also holds promise in detoxification. The oil cake > cannot be used as animal feed because of its toxicity at present. > But fermentation processes will eliminate the toxins. Jatropha oil > cake compares well with any other oil cake and poultry and farm > yard manure in terms of N, P and K content of 4.4, 2.09 and 1.68 > per cent respectively. The consumption of Jatropha oil cake will > not be a problem due to the awareness among the farmers in the > use of organics like Neem, Pongamia etc." > > :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::end of quote::::::::::::::::::::::::: > > Partial list of questions to be clarified: > > 1. What are the effects for workers handling the raw materials? > 2. What is needed for effective denaturing and what are the costs per > ton of this processing? > 3. What is needed for effective fermentation and what are the costs per > ton of this processing? > 4. What level of heat is needed under what conditions to guarantee > destruction of the toxic compounds? > 5. What about evaporation, combustion or other gases during the process > in Q4? > 6. Granted that "farmers" in the quote above know the dangers of > ingestion of the seed cake: a. are they aware of the issues of handling > dangers? b. will the general populace be able to be equally or better > aware and c. what are the costs of significantly lowering the toxicity > before it gets into the hands, lungs and bloodstreams of the general > user populace? > 7. Are the effects in Q1 manageable at a local level? > 8. Are the processes in Q2 through Q5 manageable in realistic situations > (Even the EU is not immune to UE "User Error") > > My professors in seminary were always badgering me to ask questions > about assumptions made when evaluating a text and to also examine the > wider context for additional "light". I submit that this might well be > of benefit in other situations than in biblical studies. > > The paper you cited is also from an agricultural department of a > university promoting the use of Jatropha primarily for biofuel and > refined biodiesel. It would be suspected that they might remain vague on > some of the above issues for understandable reasons. Do we want to > accept such vagueness without qualification? I think not. > > regards, > Ronald von Angenehmreisen durch Notwendigfragen > > On 23.01.2011 03:55, Paul S. Anderson wrote: > > Stovers, > > > > The cautionary notes given by Nat M. and Otto F. should be taken > > seriously. However, they also need to provide scientific evidence to > > support their statements. > > > > Evidence implying the OPPOSITE of what was stated is the following: > > > > from http://www.tnau.ac.in/tech/swc/evjatropha.pdf > > > > Like Castor oil, the Jatropha oil and cake contain traces of > > toxins. The components associated with toxicity can be > > denatured or inactivated by heat. The toxic components in > > Jatropha cake are curcin a phytotoxin similar to ricin in castor > > and HCN in young Sorghum leaves and Tapioca rind and > > purgative oil as in castor and croton oil. Heat treatment or the > > combination of heat and chemical (NaOH and NaOCl) > > treatments can inactivate the above toxic components. > > > > **** Apparently heat destroys the toxins. Good news that has been out > > of sight. Publication date is not evident. > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3403 - Release Date: 01/25/11 > > > _______________________________________________ > The Stoves list has moved to [email protected] - please > update your email contacts to reflect the change. > > Please visit BioEnergy Discussion Lists > http://info.bioenergylists.org/ > Thank you, Stoves > Administrator > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org > http://info.bioenergylists.org > > UNSUBSCRIBE HERE; > http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_listserv.repp.org >
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