Yep. Same decision I made. Im glad I went with struts. :-) -----Original Message----- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 10:34 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Hello, all.
>From: "Andrew Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Struts Developers List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: Hello, all. >Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 10:17:26 +0800 > >Barracuda is an impressive framework. It also has quite a powerful event >model which struts lacks. >The rendering seems tied to XMLC however. Ive not used Barracuda myself so >dont know how hard it would be to make it play with a different view >technology. That said, using a DOM approach for rendering has substantial >advantages. As it happens Im also using a non jsp DOM based rendering >approach (not xmlc though) for the view in my struts app - and it must be >said from this experience that struts certainly doesnt tie you down to a >particular view technology. :-) > ><btw> >Interesting to note that many of the things that struts lacks compared to >frameworks such as Barracuda are addressed in the JSF spec - events, >component models, etc... >Im very much looking forward to Struts for JSF... ></btw> This is a direct result of Struts not trying to be everything to everyone. The main Struts functionality (action controller) is unlikely to become a standard as far as i can tell. So, Struts fits nicely into a comprehensive web framework composed of various standards and your own code. I'd much rather develop apps that use standards and appropriate toolkits like Struts than with something like Barracuda. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Daniel Honig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 04:59 >To: Struts Developers List >Subject: RE: Hello, all. > > >In order to stick my head out so it can be cut off... > > >Well I think that Struts rocks first off... > >But when you compare it to a framework like: >http://barracuda.enhydra.org/ >http://barracuda.enhydra.org/cvs_source/Barracuda/docs/what_the_heck_is_bar r >acuda.html > > >It seems clear to me that struts is not as elegant. > >Struts does not as clearly seperate M-V-C. > >Struts lacks a component model that Barracuda cleanly identifies. > > >And I think this is fine. I wouldn't want to introduce Barracuda to alot >of >developer's >because it is more complex. Struts is a simple way of achieving the same >goal >and pragmatism is one of the values I prize most in this profession. > >-Daniel > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 11:58 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: Hello, all. > > >You'll want to join the struts-user list to learn more about Struts and get >help with any questions you might have. The struts-dev list is used by >developers to discuss bugs, enhancements, and general topics concerning the >framework's development. > >David > > > > > > > >From: Joseph Ottinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: "Struts Developers List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: Struts Developers List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: Hello, all. > >Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:45:14 -0500 (EST) > > > >Then enlighten me? I wouldn't have joined the list at all if I hadn't >been > >interested in learning more. Dave had a substantive point, one I >responded > >to. Where I erred once, I'm sure I can err again; I'm trying to prevent > >that if I can. > > > >On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, micael wrote: > > > > > Joseph, you are making a fool out of yourself. You seem to have no >idea > > > how little you know. > > > > > > At 11:08 AM 12/9/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > > >On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, David Graham wrote: > > > > > > > > > Joseph, > > > > > I noticed you quoted me on your site but you left out the >important > >point > > > > > that Struts has never and will never dictate a model or view layer > > > > > technology. Struts gives you total freedom because at its core >it's > >simply > > > > > an action controller. The taglibs will be replaced by standards > >like JSTL > > > > > and JSF. > > > > > > > >Actually, I did note those things, while my definition of a "model" > > > >differs slightly from yours. I made a point out of mentioning in my > > > >introductory email here that I retracted one of my criticisms, >centered > > > >around your point. > > > > > > > > > I had never heard of your site before someone posted it on this >list > >and I > > > > > don't intend to visit it often. Struts does not need a defense on > >your > > > > > site. *You* need to actually build a meaningful app using Struts > >and then > > > > > make a judgement. The only "defense" of Struts I'll offer is >this: > > > > > Thousands of successful web applications have been produced >quickly > >and > > > > > cheaply using Struts. Struts is the most popular Java web MVC > > > > framework for > > > > > a reason. I suggest you find out why. > > > > > > > >Lots of points here! > > > > > > > >For one thing, it's okay - my site has no banners, no sponsors >begging > >for > > > >extra traffic. Whether you visit often or not, well, hey - that's up >to > > > >you. As far as using struts: I've deployed struts apps, "meaningful" > >ones. > > > >I've found other frameworks to be more appropriate for more >situations. > > > >"Most popular" is fairly well beyond doubt, and I've never claimed > > > >otherwise (nor would I)... but then again, Windows is the "most > >popular" > > > >OS, and that doesn't mean it's the best solution. > > > > > > > > > I frankly don't care if some people don't like Struts; that's a > >matter of > > > > > personal preference. I do care when it is misrepresented with > >ignorant > > > > > statements. > > > > > > > >Indeed! I agree with this; as I've stated, my goal was to explain a > > > >viewpoint that was asked about. I joined this list so that I could > > > >determine what actually *IS* incorrect and fix that. > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------- > >Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://enigmastation.com IT Consultant > > > >-- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: > ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >For additional commands, e-mail: > ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > >-- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >For additional commands, e-mail: ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >-- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >For additional commands, e-mail: ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >-- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >For additional commands, e-mail: ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. 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