maybe the economic downturn should go on for a while and some of the lesser talented will go back to farming... --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- Datum: 21.01.2003 17:18 Von: "Andrew Hill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
> Im surprised sich developers have jobs in todays market. > Surely there must be a glut of more experienced developers that can be > obtained at the same price? > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:15 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers > > > ok, I think it's time for us all, to lower our standards: Talking about > newbies: The newbies I mean have just started Java. They think R/3 is a > piece of good Software instead of a piece of crappy scripts. They asked > things like: "What do you mean with Transaction?", "Huh, why a database > *and* an applicationserver?". And if you ask them for their favourite > tool, they show you a Chainsaw and a Screwdriver(ok, only the better ones > have screwdrivers). If you tell them: Use what makes you more productive > they stick to paper&pencil. I understand them, if you start there, there > is nothing you can decide upon. You have to tell them: But if you have > more than one senior-coder, it would be nice if they agreed on what they > tell them... > > > --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- > Datum: 21.01.2003 16:48 > Von: "James Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers > > > This isn't about "expressing your individuality", it's about doing what > makes you -- the coder -- more productive. If it's your job to write code, > and you feel more comfortable using your favorite tool, then by all means > use it. > > > > As far as administrative costs are concerned: Coders are smart enough to > troubleshoot their own boxes, and if they're not then they damn well > should be. > > > > Newbies? I challenge the notion that forcing new toolsets on them is > productive in the long run. It is completely within the realm of > possibility that they will have a shorter ramp-up time if they are able to > use tools they are already familiar with to integrate with existing > standards. > > > > In short: I have never encountered a development environment where it > would be better to standardize upon a single, monolithic work environment > for all developers. Some people like Emacs, some like Eclipse, some like > directly editing bytecode with a hex editor. Whatever. So long as the > project gets done on time, on budget, and meets the requirements *it > doesn't matter*. > > > > -= J > > > > PS: I am currently working on a team of 12 developers who each use their > own toolset. We are ahead of schedule and under budget. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:30 AM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers > > > > > > > > > I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your > > > individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B. > > > > > > If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes > > > it easier for > > > administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to another > > > member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so > > > on: Just think > > > about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses > > > Eclipse which > > > has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on using > > > IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the > > > Newbie-Coder > > > comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of > > > setting up > > > your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size > of > > > one... > > > > > > --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- > > > Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20 > > > Von: "James Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > An: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers > > > > > > > > > > > I second this. Different people work in different ways; > > > standardizing an > > > IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human > > > nature. If > > > my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't like, > > > they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing > > > productivity. > > > > > > > > *shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company. > > > Everybody can use > > > whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles > and > > > passes the unit tests. > > > > > > > > I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to > > > take away Vim I > > > would have to tell them to... well... You get the idea. > > > > > > > > Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA lately, > > > and it looks > > > quite promising. Tight, and as fast as Eclipse. Plus I like > > > the fact that > > > I can do everything within it without using the keyboard. And > > > it can do > > > regexp search and replaces, which is one of the main things keeping > me > > > married to Vim right now. > > > > > > > > -= J > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM > > > > > To: Struts Users Mailing List > > > > > Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, > > > > > order is order. > > > > > > I think his concern about this task is to improve > > > > > productivity. So, what is more productive? > > > > > > > > > > If he wants productivity then let the developers use the > > > > > tools they are > > > > > familiar with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > For additional commands, e-mail: > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
