Thats very much the case over here. People with several years experience elbowing out grads for the $2000 to $3000 a month (Thats 1100 - 1700 $USD approx (which is more than it was last week hehe)) positions (that used to be entry positions - but theres none of those now) and not just in IT...
And one in two taxi drivers I meet seems to have been an engineer only a few months before... (The other one usually being some old codger whose been driving cabs since Model T's were all the rage) -----Original Message----- From: apachep2 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 22:51 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Have you guys ever think of a situation, when a developer loses his job for a while, he will take whatever contract it is and being paid whatever the employer will offer? In this economy condition, supply of developers always exceeds demanding. I see seniors applying for an entry level job. -----Original Message----- From: Sterin, Ilya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 28, 2003 9:04 AM To: 'Andrew Hill '; 'Struts Users Mailing List ' Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? I'm still not understanding why you are having problems believing those rates? Here, an average IT employee salary for full time staff employee, is $30+/hour. An employer, spends about another 20% on benefits, madical, dental, etc... So the employer, really faces about a $36-$40 average expense on an employee. Now, if this contract is say 1 year or less, then there is a drawback of having someone stay, when they are not needed after the work is done. Now, $40 dollars, is just per employee expense. Now, each employer has to pay FICA tax, for each on staff employee, which is about 15% more. So now were are up to about the $50 round about figure per hour. Lets see, then there is office expenses, etc... so the figure is getting higher and higher and that's just the average. Now, an average rate for a contractor is about $50, which actually saves the company money, for outsourcing it, then also allows them to only be billed for hours as needed, so if one week there is a break, and no work is done, there is no bill, at least some of the time, since as we know, consultants always find ways to bill:-) Now, getting to higher figures of say $75/hour-$150/hour, those are usually for expert consultants. Say, I know people who've written books on the subject, and they have the credibility to charge that much, etc... Also past experience, thorough knowledge of technology, being a core team developer of this particular technology or similar ranking. Also, most of those rates are for shorter term projects. I hope this helps you understand this a bit better. An averag McDonald's employee is costing the company about $25/hour, so if the burger flipper was smart, he or she would break a deal of $20/hour and call it a day:-) Ilya -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 9:02 PM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Half right. :-) I guess low is a distinctly relative term. Especially when comparing apples & oranges (or salary & contract) ;->. Rates here may be low compared to US or UK contract rates (are they really so high? - still have trouble believing those figures!), but as for those in India, Russia, etc... they would get a fraction of the going rate here, and there are probably folk doing the same stuff elsewhere who get even less. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Barr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 28 March 2003 07:44 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? Yeah, but we both (i think Andrew is an Aussie) live in Australia. Land of low wages Scott www.exergonic.com.au On Fri, 2003-03-28 at 06:26, Sterin, Ilya wrote: 30*3000 is more than your whole entire career earnings? Where are you from? India? Russia? In US that's an average developer contract salary, and $30/hour is a charge that most contractors will laugh at here. Ilya -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Hill To: Struts Users Mailing List Sent: 3/27/03 1:32 AM Subject: RE: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are USD per HOUR? Crikey! You could retire after a couple of years on that! Nah that cant be right. I did a bit under 3000 hours last year, multiply by 30 and convert to local currency adds up to more than Ive earned in my whole working life (4+ years). A lot more... Are those fair dinkum rates or are you just having us on? Five weeks holiday??? OT pay??? Yeh. Thought so. Its a joke. hehe. You had me going there mate! -----Original Message----- From: Simon Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 27 March 2003 16:08 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Contract Work: Going Rate? These are some going full time rates for a London based e-learning company, for an average of 1880 hrs worked in one year (Five weeks holiday not included in the figures, but you'd get the same rate). The company pays OT on projects that need it, but actually limit the number of hours in a week that an employee can be in the office. (Something about a work/life balance, whatver than means :-) All in US dollars (converted from blighty pounds) Grade one (Whipping boy) - 30$ Grade two (Code monkey) - 40$ Grade three (Designer) - 55$ Grade four (Architect) - 90$ Grade five (Senior Architect) - 150$ These don't include the options and bonuses (last xmas bonus ranged from 500$ to 6000$) and the OT isn't in there (Usually 1.5*hourly week-day/sat -- 2*hourly sun). Contractor have to pay all the insurance and stuff, so I'd dap about 22-40% on top of each of these + a little extra if your gonna have to live in an expensive part of town. NOTE to the lawer. It only becomes illegal if it can be proven that we have set a level of pay *and* have all agreed to follow this level. If you've been on here long enough, you'd know *noone* ever agrees about anything!! =]:0) Good luck with the job, I hear California is nice this time of year!! Cheers Simon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
