Thank you very much for everyone's responses.

Reading your links and posts, I'm forming the following thoughts:

EJB's
    the bad:
        - more overhead to design and deploy
        - require an app server
        - no inheritance
    the good:
        - standard
        - spec encompasses most (if not all) enterprise features I could
            ever want, and probably never use

Hibernate/iBATIS
    the bad:
        - not a standard spec (IF that's "bad" anyway)
    the good (awesome):
        - I love the "non-intrusive" nature of adding the persistence
            functionality; you don't have to modify your beans
    questions:
        - lazy loading / selective saving?
        - what if an object is spread over several tables in a legacy
            database?

If anyone's got anything to add, please do.  I think this is a topic that
itches the brains of many newbies watching the struts-user list.  Thanks
again.

-Sasha Borodin

On 10/3/03 14:45, "Sgarlata Matt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've done a good bit of research on this, and here's the general impression
> I get from various different sources:
> 
> * EJBs are good when you need very advanced enterprise features like
> advanced transaction support and a distributed architecture.  However, you
> need to be careful that your EJBs are designed correctly or they can have
> serious performance problems.
> * Hibernate is the most popular object-to-relational tool on the market
> right now.  (I plan to use it in my next project.)  The one downside is that
> it uses the LGPL license, which can be a problem on some projects.
> * Lots of people like OJB, but I heard once it was tricky to set up.  If you
> can't use Hibernate because of the license, this would probably be your
> second-best choice.  (see Joe's email for additional comments).
> * Torque is a Jakarta DB project that I am currently using.  It makes me
> nervous because it depends on a few nightly builds and other components in
> the sandbox.
> * In the future it looks like JDO will be a good choice.  It is a
> persistence mechanism for Java objects.  Strictly speaking, it is not an
> object-to-relational mapping tool *yet* but I heard it will be when JDO 2.0
> comes out.
> 
> Matt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sasha Borodin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 3:09 PM
> Subject: EJB's vs. Hibernate vs. Torque vs. custom DTO's
> 
> 
>> I hope I'm not comparing apples and oranges; if I am, please excuse the
>> ignorance, and slap me upside the head...
>> 
>> The subject line says it all - I'm investigating the appropriate uses of
> the
>> above technologies to move data between databases and objects.  Thus far
> in
>> my development career, I've relied on my own DTO's - homegrown primitive
>> lazy loading, caching, etc.
>> 
>> As I'm starting projects for other companies, I'm realizing that no one
>> wants home-grown solutions where standards and proven products have
> already
>> filled the niche.
>> 
>> Thus, I'd like to get some opinions as to the level of complexity and
>> appropriate use of EJBs and other object-relational bridging technologies.
>> 
>> Who uses what, why, and where? :-)
>> 
>> -Sasha Borodin
>> 
>> 
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