I found it interesting though.
Since we're talking about the quality of mailing lists, does anybody know which the best JBoss list is? The forum and associated mailing list at www.jboss.org is not up to the standard I'm used to at Jakarta. In fact, I'm wondering whether there is an alternative at all actually.
Thanks Adam
On 03/02/2004 04:46 AM Andrew Hill wrote:
Ive found the best way to avoid those kind of morons is to work at small companies where any deadwood has nowhere to hide and is quickly pruned :-) Our tech leads really know their stuff here.
-----Original Message----- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2004 06:28 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Life, the Universe and Everything (was: RE: [OT] RE: Memory usage)
While the original flame war was less helpful, the question that has emerged from it's ashes is a good one. I don't claim to have all the answers, but I can offer some personal observations. Feel free to disagree.
1. You can do nothing about those who choose not to learn. I've tried changing them and it doesn't work. I consider this a basic fact.
2. You have a great deal of control over your ability to learn. If you aren't big time into learning, then I recommend catching some enthusiasm for it.
3. There will be always be good and bad tech leads. I am a tech lead; I try to be a good one. I can put a String to standard out or standard error! ;-)
4. I had the same frustrations that you have. I made the decision that the best way to restore the balance of good in the universe, was to try to become the kind of tech lead that I would have wanted when I was a newbie/humble grunt. I teach a class on learning Java one lunchtime a week and try to bestow a little wisdom and encouragement whenever I can. I am a Java mentor here and I lead a study group of us that are seeking our Java Certification.
5. No one reads documentation. This is a fact. Learn what is "drop dead fired and escorted from the building" important and then try to auto-generate it. :-)
6. Leadership is a rare commodity. There's a lot of management out there, but precious little leadership. Again, deal with it. Become a leader and just do what needs to be done. This is what I have tended to do. The ol' saying about "it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission" is very true (except I sometimes forget to ask for forgiveness! :-)
7. Black team? How 90's, Our team wears Hawaiian shirts! (Honest. :-)
Simon
-----Original Message----- From: P K [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 3:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] RE: Memory usage
Sorry to continue on this topic. I've learnt a great deal of non struts stuff on this list and this only adds to it. I've been bothered (mostly in my mind) with questions about peoples capabilities and desires when it comes to work. Viru, this original poster of the question on Memory Usage clearly has a desire to learn, but what about people who don't? How do you deal with them? I currently work with a Tech Lead who wouldn't be able to output a String to standard out if asked to write a program. I don't care about her taking credit for the work that we do. She doesn't provide any leadership whatsoever to the project except produce paper that no one bothers to read. Have you guys come across situations like this? What have you done about it? Don't get me wrong - I am not prone to complaining nor do I think I am a member of the elite 'Black Team'. ---------------------------------------- Quoting "Dhaliwal, Pritpal (HQP)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
+1
I agree with everyone who has responded. We should not
clutter this very
friendly mailing list with things that don't belong here,
that includes "not
so nice" responses. I haven't been on many, but this is by
far my favorite
list, even though I am mainly a spectator.
I lashed out because this question clearly didn't belong
here. If the person
had followed anything in
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html,
it must that they were polite. They certainly didn't do much
investigation
outside on the internet. The little bit of unfriendliness, I
dunno why it
came out. Unprofessional, it shouldn't have came out.
Even questions that don't belong here deserve to be treated with respect. That is the single most obvious characteristic of STRUTS-USER that is distinctive (even though it has lots of other good qualities). Unfortunately, you decided to unload on a poster in a manner that is decidedly out of the norm for STRUTS-USER. Your response is the kind of behavior that creates problems for the perception of open source projects as being "friendly" to users or not. If you think the topic is totally out of scope for STRUTS-USER, then you should either (a) answer the question anyway but point people to where they should really be asking; (b) *gently* encourage the user to explore the other resources that are available (the archives are full of examples of folks who have done this), or (c) shut your yap and press DELETE instead of SUBMIT on your replies :-). The culture of the STRUTS-USER list has always been *deliberately* different
from the "you idiot, how could you be so stupid as to ask that
question in that way" sort of attitude that far too many open source projects have. Fortunately, despite the fact that this is the most-subscribed-to user list at Jakarta (ten short of 3000 at the moment), the occurrences of rude behavior are so rare that they immediately attract notice for being out of character for what we're trying to achieve :-). I'd say that we've been doing a pretty good job maintaining a friendly, welcoming, and helpful community. I'd also like to keep it that way. Craig McClanahan
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