On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 16:45, Sebastian Dziallas<sebast...@when.com> wrote: > Sean DALY wrote: >> Yes Gary by all means, the deadline is this weekend >> >> Sebastian, earlier in the thread we discussed how part of keeping a >> clean-looking boot involves getting more information (logos) on the >> About My Computer page, is that difficult to do? >> >> Sean > > I don't think that it would be that difficult, but it seems like this > would need to be done in Sugar itself, not SoaS (which is also, why I'm > not really sure how to realize it). Maybe one of the Sugar devs has an > idea...
Maybe you could patch the source code in the kickstart file? Would be somewhere in /usr/share/sugar/extensions/ Regards, Tomeu > --Sebastian > >> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Gary C Martin<g...@garycmartin.com> wrote: >>> Hi Sebastian, >>> >>> On 7 Jun 2009, at 14:37, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> looking at the wiki page, I'm really impressed - great work! :) >>>> >>>> I also really like the idea of switching the logo color for each release - >>>> this shouldn't be hard and is an interesting approach. >>>> >>>> Has there already been some kind of agreement on which version we're going >>>> to use for the LinuxTag release? >>> Yes I was wondering this also, given the weekend was the deadline :-) >>> >>>> Is the one with the progress bar something everyone could agree with? >>> FWIW, my two current favourites are the grey progress bar, or the grey >>> circle of dots: >>> >>> >>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Image:XO-sugar-boot-with-progress-bar.gif >>> >>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Image:Refined-XO-sugar-boot-with-overlap.gif >>> >>>> And could I possibly get the .png files, so that I can compose a new >>>> snapshot with a preview of the new boot screen (we can still change it >>>> afterwards, but I'd like to have some snapshot to test it)? >>> I don't want to short circuit a decision making process, but let me kick out >>> their PNGs and email to you (will do that now). That way you at least have a >>> couple of the possible candidates to experiment/test with now. >>> >>> Regards, >>> --Gary >>> >>>> Walter: Have you heard anything regarding the use of the XO in our boot >>>> screen? Is this okay with OLPC? >>>> >>>> --Sebastian >>>> >>>> Sean DALY wrote: >>>>> Actually the logo color linked to a version idea was in my long mail >>>>> the other day about communicating the version :-) >>>>> >>>>> I too think 2 changes a year will give us time to cycle through the >>>>> twelve variants. >>>>> >>>>> To make that work, the actual place where the version number is >>>>> communicated (Control Panel / About my computer) would need to have >>>>> the matching color Sugar Labs (not just Sugar) logo. >>>>> >>>>> I like this progress bar boot screen because: >>>>> >>>>> * ultrasimple, unobtrusive, fits perfectly with Sugar HIG >>>>> * bar is universally easy to understand, no possibility of confusion >>>>> with graphic elements. >>>>> * keeping logo around that long=strong branding, which is vital for >>>>> Sugar to be recognized by name rather than just "the system" running >>>>> on XOs, netbooks, etc. >>>>> >>>>> I miss the iconic ring treatment though. >>>>> >>>>> And, no matter how clean we would like it to be, we still need to >>>>> address the questions of school/sponsor co-branding (if they have a >>>>> logo, they won't feel like jst putting their name in grey) and distro >>>>> co-branding. >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps we could solve those problems by putting them in the "About my >>>>> computer" page as well? Awful as far as co-branding goes (partners >>>>> would not be happy), but will keep boot minimalist and functional. >>>>> >>>>> For a shining example of how more-is-less packaging is ruinous, may I >>>>> direct your attention to: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 9:44 PM, Gary C Martin<g...@garycmartin.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> On 4 Jun 2009, at 16:35, Gary C Martin wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4 Jun 2009, at 15:45, Sean DALY wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes that would be very helpful I think >>>>>>> I was just going to start tinkering again, I'll make an animated >>>>>>> version of Eben's XO and progress-bar for evaluation. >>>>>> Just uploaded an animated version showing Eben's boot with progress bar >>>>>> treatment: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Image:XO-sugar-boot-with-progress-bar.gif >>>>>> >>>>>> FWIW: +1 on Eben's suggestion for changing the colour of the Sugar logo >>>>>> for >>>>>> each major new Sugar release. It nicely avoids what looks like jumping >>>>>> through lot's of technical burning hoops of fire, trying to set up a >>>>>> boot >>>>>> anim that dynamically changes to match the owners own colours (nice idea >>>>>> but >>>>>> I think a big ask at this point in time). >>>>>> >>>>>> FWIW2: Just incase any one was wondering, the colour dot versions were >>>>>> based >>>>>> on the 1-12 official Sugar Logo treatment colour pairs, i.e definitely >>>>>> not >>>>>> not random :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> --Gary >>>>>> >>>>>>>> If we can reach consensus by tomorrow and finish the actual PNG frames >>>>>>>> over the weekend we will meet the deadline >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> but, we need a volunteer to do the frames (unless Gary what you have >>>>>>>> is nearly ready; my stuff is cut/pasted mockup no color control etc) >>>>>>> Sure, getting a series of PNGs from any of my mock-ups is just a "save >>>>>>> for web" away. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> --Gary >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt >>>>>>>> <christianm...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> I agree with Eben's points below... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Maybe it would help if one of us mocked up the alternative he is >>>>>>>>> describing? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Christian >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Jun 4, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Eben Eliason<eben.elia...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Eben Eliason<eben.elia...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 7:24 AM, Sean DALY<sdaly...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Boot_Logo >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Christian - I myself prefer the "rays" to dots which I feel too >>>>>>>>>>>> closely resemble networks in the Neighborhood view, confusion is >>>>>>>>>>>> possible (networks being connected to at startup?) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Fred - I'm willing to try that sunrise metaphor, tonight if I can >>>>>>>>>>>> (travelling today) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Re splash page with logo: in my next mockup I'll leave off the >>>>>>>>>>>> example >>>>>>>>>>>> school logo.and move that frame to the end. It might be better to >>>>>>>>>>>> "reserve" a frame for customizable logo or message, before or >>>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>> the Sugar spash page >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, in that mockup the first screen is kind of overwhelming with >>>>>>>>>>> several logos and a few pieces of textual information. At the same >>>>>>>>>>> time, we tried very hard to eliminate the slideshow effect that >>>>>>>>>>> feels >>>>>>>>>>> (well, is) like a bunch of marketing material that detracts from >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> UI. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think the Sugar logo should stand alone, so it reads >>>>>>>>>>> powerfully, and >>>>>>>>>>> then be replaced in short order by the XO. Perhaps we could >>>>>>>>>>> entertain >>>>>>>>>>> a text only solution to identifying the school, in gray beneath the >>>>>>>>>>> sugar logo. Thoughts? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Version info: In fact I feel strongly about showing version >>>>>>>>>>>> information... or its corollary, making it easy to find. Teachers, >>>>>>>>>>> I think it's more important that we make it easy to find in the UI. >>>>>>>>>>> Kids won't reboot that often, and it would be silly to reboot >>>>>>>>>>> just to >>>>>>>>>>> find that info. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> parents, admins, G1G1 donors unfamiliar with Sugar will not have >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> foggiest idea how to hunt down version information (Learners >>>>>>>>>>>> might not >>>>>>>>>>>> have trouble finding it - they will explore their machines ad >>>>>>>>>>>> infinitum - but they can't be expected to know about >>>>>>>>>>>> versioning). We >>>>>>>>>>>> are about to embark on hundreds of thousands of XO-1.5s running >>>>>>>>>>>> v0..84 >>>>>>>>>>>> which will coexist with a huge installed base of v0.82 (and many >>>>>>>>>>>> earlier); SoaS with its simplified numbering scheme will (we >>>>>>>>>>>> hope) sow >>>>>>>>>>>> the seeds for preinstalled Sugar in distributions for education >>>>>>>>>>>> projects. We may be deploying v0.86 at the end of the year... >>>>>>>>>>>> aside >>>>>>>>>>>> from how we manage the Activity compatibility matrix, we need to >>>>>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>> such info *extremely* easy to track down for someone interested in >>>>>>>>>>>> checking if Sugar + Activities are "up-to-date". Our strategy for >>>>>>>>>>>> teacher buy-in is star marketing on Activities (see press >>>>>>>>>>>> releases); >>>>>>>>>>>> making Activity installation/upgrade simple this summer is part of >>>>>>>>>>>> what we need to do to make SoaS possible in the classroom. Helping >>>>>>>>>>>> users understand what version they have (of Sugar, of each >>>>>>>>>>>> Activity) >>>>>>>>>>>> is a key aspect of that. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I agree that it's unpleasant to see numbers at boot time >>>>>>>>>>>> (especially a >>>>>>>>>>>> datestamped snapshot number). Why don't we borrow an idea from >>>>>>>>>>>> Apple? >>>>>>>>>>> We basically have this already. We ust happen to have an XO in the >>>>>>>>>>> center of the screen, instead of an apple icon in the upper left. >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> info is actually in the "About my XO" section of the settings, >>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>> might be one step too far. We could go back to an earlier design >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> the XO menu and have a direct "About my XO" menu item which jumps >>>>>>>>>>> directly to the correct settings panel. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We could also separate the "About my XO" panel from settings, >>>>>>>>>>> removing >>>>>>>>>>> it from the settings panel completely and showing it as it's own >>>>>>>>>>> modal >>>>>>>>>>> dialog accessible via an "About my XO" menu item. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I would be fine with either approach. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> They have a tiny apple icon in the upper-left corner of the >>>>>>>>>>>> screen; >>>>>>>>>>>> clicking on it opens a window with the processor, RAM and OSX >>>>>>>>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>>>> number. In addition to the "About my computer" section in the >>>>>>>>>>>> Control >>>>>>>>>>>> Panel, perhaps we could show the version in the Frame? The >>>>>>>>>>>> bottom bar >>>>>>>>>>>> has room I think. >>>>>>>>>>> There's no need to expose this information directly. It will only >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> needed on occasion, and the Frame is designed for the information >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> want to carry with you all the time. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> When we start to get consolidated feedback, we will know if >>>>>>>>>>>> difficult-to-find version info is a problem for Sugar / Activity >>>>>>>>>>>> updaters or not. I feel sure it is and showing the version in the >>>>>>>>>>>> Frame (the one-glance status communicator) seems to me a good >>>>>>>>>>>> approach >>>>>>>>>>>> which would let us skip info in the splash screen. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Nota: my idea would be for each version to change the Sugar logo >>>>>>>>>>>> color >>>>>>>>>>>> too... potentially allowing troubleshooters to ask "what color >>>>>>>>>>>> is the >>>>>>>>>>>> Sugar logo?" and match that to the version number. >>>>>>>>>>> I would much rather see the logo change colors with each boot, but >>>>>>>>>> I meant to take this back before sending, and forgot to. I actually >>>>>>>>>> think changing the colors with each release is a pretty awesome >>>>>>>>>> idea. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Eben >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> changing with each release is a pretty cool idea. I would support >>>>>>>>>>> that. I think there are enough of combinations to make "wrapping >>>>>>>>>>> around" a non-issue, as long as we only change the color for major >>>>>>>>>>> releases (2 per year, on average). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Finally, regarding the animation itself: I Think the gray dots are >>>>>>>>>>> still the best option, and the clearest. They fit the style, but >>>>>>>>>>> won't >>>>>>>>>>> be confused with APs. If we can in any way manage it, coloring >>>>>>>>>>> the XO >>>>>>>>>>> in the child's chosen colors is really the way that color should be >>>>>>>>>>> introduced. The colored dots seem to undermine the importance of >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> metaphor, for me. Everywhere else in the UI, color relates to >>>>>>>>>>> identity; has meaning. (All the more reason to change the sugar >>>>>>>>>>> logo >>>>>>>>>>> colors with each release!) These randomly colored dots just don't >>>>>>>>>>> seem >>>>>>>>>>> fit within that concept. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Also, if no "dot" solution seems to gain consensus, we could go >>>>>>>>>>> back >>>>>>>>>>> to a simple progress bar, which is perhaps less interesting, but >>>>>>>>>>> simple and clean and matches the UI. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Eben >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 5:00 AM, Frederick Grose<fgr...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please indulge me to make another pitch for the 'sunrise' >>>>>>>>>>>>> metaphor for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> growing ring. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Using the same color locations, the ring would build from sunrise >>>>>>>>>>>>> orange to >>>>>>>>>>>>> midday yellow to afternoon greens and blues to dusky red-violets >>>>>>>>>>>>> (perhaps >>>>>>>>>>>>> the darker one last). These are just common earth metaphors >>>>>>>>>>>>> that might >>>>>>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>>>>>> to mind as children worldwide--who may have never seen a analog >>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>> digital >>>>>>>>>>>>> clock--anticipate what may be waiting for them in their day >>>>>>>>>>>>> ahead of >>>>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The ring would also build from one foot, and end symmetrically >>>>>>>>>>>>> on the >>>>>>>>>>>>> other--a growth surrounding the nascent learner like a cover--a >>>>>>>>>>>>> home--a >>>>>>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>>>>>> shelter for learning or a shower of celestial opportunities. >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Will I >>>>>>>>>>>>> grow >>>>>>>>>>>>> too like the graphic is suggesting?" >>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, these are just potential metaphors... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Frederick Grose<fgr...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like that a lot. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm with others on leaving the version number as well to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'About my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Computer' panel. (It can be referenced and then read as needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>>>>> booting, whereas the vanishing boot image just makes me >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nervous about >>>>>>>>>>>>>> writing down or memorizing a long number.) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Green Hornet, would of course only appear on a 'Graphic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> guidelines' >>>>>>>>>>>>>> page for deployments and packagers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I suggest you try this sequence: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. a short, blank white field (infinite potential) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. the small xo figure (just possibly me in a big universe) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. the building ring and figure (what might be building for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> me? Will I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> grow too as suggested?) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. the Sugar, and optional custom graphic, pausing, usually a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine-dependent variable time, allowing for reading (fixing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the name >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this tool and those who built it for me) Do we want a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gray >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sugar >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Labs opposite the fedora remix? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (5. the living, playable, ready-to-open door to Learning--the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sugar >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home >>>>>>>>>>>>>> view.) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone! --Fred >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Sean DALY<sdaly...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fred - I have uploaded a new variant to the wiki: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Boot_Logo#Eleven_Color_Ray_Variant.2C_Growing_XO_Avatar.2C_No_Prior_Outlines.2C_Starts_With_Logo_Splash_Page >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Frederick >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grose<fgr...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mostly like it. Seems to be close to what we want for now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please consider these adjustments: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. No fine print (leave that for the 'About my Computer" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> panel). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Scale the custom school graphic example (Green Hornet) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to fit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elements, leave out the fine print. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Let the rays grow incrementally to complete the ring (no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfilled >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> holders). I feel more anticipation and suspense from the ring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> growing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without the preview, and more satisfaction of seeing the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> color >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burst. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you! --Fred >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:33 PM, Sean DALY<sdaly...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's the second mockup: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Boot_Logo#Eleven_Color_Ray_Variant.2C_Growing_XO_Avatar.2C_Starts_With_Logo_Splash_Page >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This version includes a logo/copyright splash page and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "growing" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "approaching" XO avatar. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Comments welcome please. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marketing mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Marketing mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>>>>>>>>>>> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Marketing mailing list >>>>>>>> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>>>>>> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >>>>> i...@lists.sugarlabs.org >>>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > i...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > _______________________________________________ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel