On 09/14/2010 07:14 PM, Gary Martin wrote:
> Hi Bert,
>
> On 31 Aug 2010, at 21:46, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>
>> On 31.08.2010, at 20:07, Gary Martin wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Bert,
>>>
>>> On 30 Aug 2010, at 10:50, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is the first beta release of Etoys 4.1.
>>>>
>>>> The biggest change is that stopping the Etoys activity will no longer save
>>>> to the Journal. To save, you will have to press the keep button. The
>>>> octagonal stop button is replaced by a circular exit button to indicate
>>>> the new behavior. It puts up a warning before actually quitting.
>>>
>>> :-(( but I'm sure this was a really tough decision to make.
>>>
>>> Do you have a screen shot of the new UI and warning dialogue that I can
>>> easily take a look at?
>>>
>>> My first gut reaction (not having seen it yet) is that the Keep button is a
>>> real problem generally (and causes confusion and misunderstanding in
>>> Sugar). Habitually training kids to click that icon each time before
>>> exiting will, for all other activities, generate many confusing duplicate
>>> Journal entries over time and make matters even worse.
>>>
>>> For the Etoys case, as a workaround for not knowing your clean/dirty state,
>>> I think having the regular Stop UI button that when clicked _always_
>>> displayed some sort of "Do you want to Keep the changes to this project in
>>> the Journal?" Keep/Don't Keep dialogue. That way kids can just keep
>>> clicking the Stop button without worry in all activities, and it's just
>>> that the Etoys pop-us up and extra dialogue when they do click Stop there.
>>>
>>> Apologies if this is already what your new "warning before actually
>>> quitting" dialogue does :)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> --Gary
>>
>> Well, you can try it in sugar-jhbuild.
>>
>> Or on your XO or SoaS:
>>
>> http://etoys.laptop.org/
>
> Sorry for taking so long to get to this (FWIW I did try a while back on an
> XO-1 with a recent Dextrose build but could not yum upgrade as the yum cache
> was limited to 49Mb and this Etoys needed 53Mb).
>
>> As usual, the Keep button saves a copy in the Journal. Unlike in Etoys
>> before, it now brings up a dialog to edit the project details, followed by a
>> dialog to chose the save location - either the Journal (preselected) or to
>> "the cloud" (Squeakland).
>
> This dialogue is pretty scary, actually it's two dialogues when you click on
> the keep toolbar icon, the first is a naming dialogue form:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The second is a publishing dialogue:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> That's quite a lot for a kid to get through, the current Sugar naming
> dialogue is bad enough and we are trying to get rid of it as there have been
> quite a few complaints – I think Simon usually disables the dialogue when he
> teaches with Sugar.
I did indeed. Though I asked the learners to use the Journal after each
lesson and attach the entries with metadata to reflect about the work
they did.
Regards,
Simon
PS: 0.92 will solve that issue for good :)
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