Peter - you can do flocking and chasing <https://youtu.be/7cmodvSM5jE?t=252> in max with ICST - probably spat and jamona as well by recording trajectories or offsetting the lists recording trajectories for chasing etc etc by a few numbers - the rest of it - especially the panner including doppler I will be looking forward to also from multichannel audio santa (by the 25th) ;)
On 11 December 2015 at 13:36, Peter Lennox <p.len...@derby.ac.uk> wrote: > A reason for 'tinting' on the encode side might be this: > > Sometimes, when synthesing a 3-d soundscape, I find it useful to pan > decorrelated reverberant material upwards - this gives a sense of > upward-spaciousness, and can help with clariy and intelligibility of > sources (kind of directional release from masking) - it's also handy when > using reverb to simulate distant sources. > > Tinting on the decode side might interfere with that, whereas doing it on > the encode side gives the flexibility to choose. > > There's another thing - dynamic panning in trajectories overhead - > 'tinting' would allow a slight phasy effect to interact with a doppler > effect to emphasise that passing overhead sensation - and intuitively, it > makes sense to combine these parameters in a single plugin. > > I quite like the idea of dedicated dynamic overhead panners... > > But then I quite like the idea of "straight line panners"... which could > actually incorporate parameters for object velocity and distance, utilising > amplitude, EQ and dry/reverb, all in one plugin. > > And I fancy the idea of 'flocking, chasing and scattering' panners > > and 'self motion panners' - that can be loaded up with a bunch of sources > with nominal positions featuring varying distances, so that as the > first-person listener virtually moves through the virtual environment, > auditory parallax is preserved. > > Oh, and whilst I'm writing to Santa, a 'biological motion' module, that > can impart the characteristic locomotion cues to a given source - complete > with optional gravity, friction, mass parameters. > > And I want that by the 25th, please... > > > Dr. Peter Lennox > Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy > Senior Lecturer in Perception > College of Arts > University of Derby > > Tel: 01332 593155 > ________________________________________ > From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine > Leudar [augustineleu...@gmail.com] > Sent: 11 December 2015 13:10 > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] vertical precendence and summing localisation > (wallis and lee 2015) > > Hi Bo, > I googled "tinting" in relation to this but couldn't find any papers - > could you point me in the direction of these demonstrations/links ? The > thing is virtually all the HRTF info related to vertical localisation is > above 4 khz. The device we made allowed you to move sounds up and down, and > horizontally with a wii controller - it worked quite well but we did cheat > a little by just making sounds more high pitched when they went upwards as > well as convolving them with directional bands but this wouldn't work with > all sounds. > > On 11 December 2015 at 12:54, Bo-Erik Sandholm <bosses...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I just want to say that when I read Joseph's mail I feel like christmas > has > > come early this year :-) > > > > I have been thinking about headtracked binaural listening for a couple of > > years and discussing it here and in other forums. > > > > The goal is to make it possible to listen to ambisonics first order with > > earphones with head tracking usen open source programs and procedures. > > > > > > I do not think we should wait until it is possible to create a individual > > HRTF for a everey day nontechnical person. > > > > This is avaliable: > > Software and hardware to do it with software written by > > http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015 or the > > Ambiexplorer on the phone with the same effort to build the head tracker > > bu also t adding a blutooth transmitterand and using another firmware. > > > > > > I have been thinking of taking another way to the goal. > > > > What I have been thinking of is a tinted head tracking binaural decoder > (I > > did not know the principle had a name) > > > > My take on the decoder is that it > > - below ~ 4kHz it should use standard HRTF decoding and have a few > > profiles selectable on the width of the head, > > ignoring individual ear shape effects above 4kHz. > > > > - tinting used to improve the height perception in binaural decoding, > > tinting subsituting for HRTF above 4kHz for height. > > tinting has shown it is possible to add height information to > > Stereo, This has been demonstrated. > > > > - I want the shoulder reflections to be taken in to account, I belive > > the varying impact of a comb filter effect of the shoulder reflection is > > VERY important. > > - the software should be controlled by parameters for head > > tilt related to shoulders and head versus body turning > > - maybe also the normal distance from the ears to the > > shoulders, but I do not think this is very important as we adjust to > > clothes on shoulders very easily. > > > > I belive we should take inspiration from UNIX principles when creating > the > > software, that is to use a chain of software that each does one thing > well > > and do not have to be rewritten all the time, A number of VST modules > that > > can be chained for could be the solution. > > > > We already have a number of the needed modules, the advantage of modules > is > > that they can be replaced or switched between. > > > > - Ambisonic rotation and tilt controlled by OSC in VST - ambix_rotator > for > > example > > - Binaural decoder, Ambix_binaural, Tinted binaural decoder - not > > available > > - Shoulder reflections - I believe the shoulders are in many cases left > > out of the HRTF sets. > > If not we work with the difference intoduced when turning the head in > > relations to the fixed shoulders. > > > > Reaper DAW that I use is not free (shareware) but very low cost, > > > > Head tracking module, > > http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1677559 > > - I hope to get assistance to make two modifications to the firmware > and > > hardware, > > the first is to change the output syntax of the data stream to OSC. > > The second is to add a second 9DOF sensor on a cable and use this to > > track shoulder movement. > > > > Best Regards > > Bo-Erik Sandholm > > Stockholm > > > > Amateur ambisonic recordist > > Interest in sound reproduction since beginning of 1960's. > > Ex Network Engineer and unix system manager > > Not a Programmer now for 35 years :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2015-12-10 21:05 GMT+01:00 Joseph Anderson < > > j.ander...@ambisonictoolkit.net> > > : > > > > > I'd just add here that a sensible approach would be to use (or design) > a > > > 'tinted' decoder. That is, a decoder that includes frequency (& or > time) > > > domain filtering to color the soundfield on playback. > > > > > > Blue Ripple Sound <http://www.blueripplesound.com/> includes tinted > > > decoders > > > <http://www.blueripplesound.com/products/poa-decoding-vst> in their > > > technology portfolio. (Furse describes this in a patent > > > <http://www.google.com/patents/US20120014527>.) For the ATK > > > <http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/wiki/tiki-index.php>, I've thought > > about > > > including a help page in the SuperCollider documentation > > > <http://doc.sccode.org/Browse.html#Libraries%3EAmbisonic%20Toolkit> on > > how > > > to go about implementing a tinted decoder, but haven't done so at this > > > time. > > > > > > The basic idea of 'tinting' is very simple: process the reproduced > > > soundfield in a way that 'enhances' or further achieves some effect > you'd > > > like. To enhance elevation, we may choose to color the soundfield in a > > way > > > that exaggerates this sense. We have two choices in the processing: > > > > > > 1. process the soundfield before decoding > > > 2. process the soundfield after decoding > > > > > > A combination of both gives the most flexible results, and the best > > choice > > > really depends on what kind of decoding array you're working with. If > you > > > have a full 3D array, choice 2 makes sense. Whereas, with a 2D layout, > > > processing the soundfield before decoding (option 1) is probably the > best > > > idea. > > > > > > Option 1 is implemented like this: > > > > > > - decode soundfield to array of equally distributed 'virtual > > > loudspeakers' > > > - filter 'virtual loudspeakers', depending on direction > > > - re-encode soundfield > > > > > > Option 2 is this: > > > > > > - decode soundfield to array of real loudspeakers > > > - filter these, depending on direction > > > > > > Choosing the correct filtering to enhance elevation is the tricky part. > > > You'll want these to be phase matched. (Linear FIR, is an easy choice. > > > Phase matched 2nd-order IIR shelfs also work well.) There are many > papers > > > about modeling HRTFs, a simple choice is to just review the suggested > > > filtering for simple spherical head modeling. A very quick search turns > > up > > > a paper from Duda and Brown > > > <http://www.ece.ucdavis.edu/cipic/files/2015/04/cipic_Brown_Duda98.pdf > >. > > > With listening in an Ambisonic soundfield, you need to remember that > the > > > listener's head already applies the listener's own HRTF. The trick will > > be > > > to enhance without unduly distorting. > > > > > > Something also useful to note: if you're a creative artist, you can > > 'tint' > > > the soundfield for creative purposes. A simple example is what might be > > > what we call 'soundfield highlight'. The idea here is that we'd > low-pass > > > all of the soundfield, except our 'highlight'. And notably, we can > steer > > > where the 'highlight' is located. (E.g., highlight different parts of > the > > > soundfield.) We can think of this as 'directional masking', but with a > > > frequency dependence. I won't go into the exact details of > implementing a > > > signal flow to generate this effect, but the ATK > > > <http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/wiki/tiki-index.php> includes all the > > > parts needed to do so. > > > > > > > > > My kind regards, > > > > > > > > > *Joseph Anderson* > > > > > > > > > > > > *http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/ <http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/>* > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Jörn Nettingsmeier < > > > netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote: > > > > > > > On 12/10/2015 04:59 PM, Peter Lennox wrote: > > > > > > > >> It does imply that an ambisonic panner plugin that incorporates > > spectral > > > >> manipulation would be more efficacious > > > >> > > > > > > > > noooooo! > > > > > > > > if it's an ambisonic panner, it doesn't change the spectrum. if it > > > changes > > > > the spectrum, it's not an ambisonic panner :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Jörn Nettingsmeier > > > > Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 > > > > > > > > Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) > > > > Tonmeister VDT > > > > > > > > http://stackingdwarves.net > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, > > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151210/d099a481/attachment.html > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151211/b039a53d/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > -- > www.augustineleudar.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151211/d5078d5a/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and > reserves the right to monitor email traffic. 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