Hello Scott >Keith > I realize that your right about technically not needing a nitrogen >fertilzier. However, CONVENTIONAL WISDOM tells farmers that they do.
Not just "technically", also practically. "Conventional wisdom" - it's not any kind of wisdom, it's propaganda, and the result of it isn't a comfort zone, very often it's giving your farm to a bank, as well as poisoning just about everything, including yourself. >It >would be a whole lot better to sway farmers on an incremental basis rather >than all in one shot. Organic farming and sustainable farming are the fastest growing agriculture sectors worldwide, for good reason. Farmers who haven't woken up to that yet should maybe wake up in a hurry. > I don't have the chemical background to know if Mike is on to something, >but I sure like his train of thought. Why? The stuff's worse than useless. >If the alternative energy technology >could help solve a Perceived problem of the farmers. Let them do what so many other farmers are doing - kick the habit (that's all it is), and save themselves and everyone else a whole lot of trouble. >They will definitely be >a step closer to winning the Big Picture. Don't forget, farmers are >conservative by nature So it's said, but that didn't stop most of them abandoning the (truly) conservative methods of centuries and going hell-for-leather into any kind of machinery and chemicals the industries suggested (not quite the right word, "suggested"), on very shaky grounds, as is now all too obvious (as it was then). >and when the margins get tighter, they tend to have >little interest in anything outside of their Comfort Zone. > When you think about it, " There's no Need " for an awfull lot of what >we consume on a daily basis. That's quite right. So stop doing it. Have you seen those interesting numbers comparing the consumption of the average American with that of the average Indian? To bring it a bit closer to on-topic, compare the per capita greenhouse gas emissions, for instance. That will HAVE to stop, and a lot of other things with it. You think I'm being too extreme. Some references below which might change your mind. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ References One 15-year study found that organic farming is not only kinder to the environment than "conventional", intensive agriculture but has comparable yields of both products and profits. The study showed that yields of organic maize are identical to yields of maize grown with fertilisers and pesticides, while soil quality in the organic fields dramatically improves. (Drinkwater, L.E., Wagoner, P. & Sarrantonio, M. Legume-based cropping systems have reduced carbon and nitrogen losses. Nature 396, 262-265.) A Rodale study found that organic farm yields equal factory farm yields after four years using organic techniques. "In the USA, for example, the top quarter sustainable agriculture farmers now have higher yields than conventional farmers, as well as a much lower negative impact on the environment," says Jules Pretty, Director of the Centre for Environment and Society at the University of Essex ("Feeding the world?", SPLICE, August/September 1998, Volume 4 Issue 6). http://members.tripod.com/~ngin/article2.htm In fact, small family farms are generally much more productive than big, industrialised farms: "For every country for which data is available, smaller farms are anywhere from 200 to 1,000 percent more productive per unit area." -- See "The Case for Small Farms": http://www.foodfirst.org/media/interviews/2000/mm8-00.html New studies are finding that it's not industrialised farming or GMOs that will feed the world of the future. "The truth, so effectively suppressed that it is now almost impossible to believe, is that organic farming is the key to feeding the world." -- The Guardian, August 24, 2000 http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/Archive/ Article/0,4273,4054683,00.html "Organic farming can 'feed the world'" -- BBC Science, September 14, 1999 http://www.purefood.org/Organic/orgfeedworld.cfm "Feeding the world?" Quietly, slowly and very significantly, sustainable agriculture is sweeping the farming systems of the world. http://members.tripod.com/~ngin/article2.htm "IT SOUNDS like an environmentalist's dream. Low-tech 'sustainable agriculture', shunning chemicals in favour of natural pest control and fertiliser, is pushing up crop yields on poor farms across the world, often by 70 per cent or more. But it's no dream. That's the claim being made in the biggest ever survey of green-minded farming (see p 16). The findings will make sobering reading for people convinced that only genetically modified crops can feed the planet's hungry in the 21st century. The gains are greatest among poor farmers..." New Scientist: "The greener revolution", 3 February 2001 http://www.newscientist.com/editorial/editorial_227629.html Also see my message of 22 Feb 2001, "Alcohol-producing GM bacteria 'could destroy all life on earth'" - go down about two-thirds of the way to where Doc Ingham says: "Let's talk about why today's conventional agricultural systems require such massive inputs of pesticides and fertilizers." Read on. - Keith >Scott Nikolai ( Goat Farmer ) > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> >Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 11:35 PM >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Ammonia > > > > >Although not strictly a fuel, I am looking for an easy way to produce > > >ammonia or other nitrate products suitable for fertiliser from > > >renewable energy sources. Any chemists out there, who can help, I > > >thought of maybe ammonia production from methane or electrolysed > > >hydrogen. Any suggestions or leads greatly appreciated. > > > > > >Surely if we can generate large amounts of power from renewable > > >sources (biodiesel, wind, biomass) is there not someway it can be > > >used to generate even a weak ammonia solution. My knowledge of > > >Haber/Bosch process is nil, but I do remember that it requires > > >extreme environmental conditions of pressure and temp, that would be > > >impossible on a DIY basis. or are they ? > > > > > >Nitrofying rhizobium bacteria in legumes and use of animal waste > > >products are too bulky and low yielding. > > > > > >Is there not another chemical reaction that can be used to generate a > > >reasonably concentrated supply of Ammonia ? > > > > > >help please. > > >Mike > > > > There's no need for ammonia nor any other nitrogen fertilisers. > > > > Keith Addison > > Journey to Forever > > Handmade Projects > > Tokyo > > http://journeytoforever.org/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! 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