Hello Bryan >Keith, > >I sincerely appreciate this lively philosophical debate. When I have >attempted in the past to paraphrase and restate what I believe to be >your position, you accused me of "putting words in your mouth."
You did though - it essentially changed what I said. I don't see why you needed to restate it anyway, it was clear enough. (And I don't like being told I'm "whining".) >Perhaps >it is due to the fact that I am a product of the US public education >system, or just my own innate inability to think critically, but I am >having difficulty understanding what exactly you believe. As little as possible. >As you have probably gathered, I am very suspicious of government and >the media it controls, Disagree - control of the US mainstream media is far more corporate than government, though there's a grey area of varying extent, as we've seen recently. >and expect everyone else to be equally cynical >concerning power. I see no solution to the current system but it's >destruction and replacement by another. Barring this revolution, the >only things that individuals can do against the current power structure >is to try and gain a modicum of independence by existing as much as >possible outside the political/economic/media sphere (i.e. living >simply, growing food, making fuel, bartering, etc.). Furthermore, while >we can't really improve the system, we can slow the erosion of our >economic and political freedom by letting those in power know that we >are watching them. The only way to do this is by educating ourselves >and spreading the word about what is happening. Yes, I agree with that, broadly, more or less. I'm usually sceptical of efforts to reform the system from within, or perhaps of the people claiming to do so, and I don't believe that true alternatives mean going back to square one but rather going forward, or at least they can do (as with localized biofuels production and decentralization of energy supplies for example). Also everything about "the system" isn't necessarily anathema, there's quite a lot that can be worked with, can be used, can be improved. A great deal in fact. >As someone who has put small-scale sustainability into practice, it >seems (at least superficially) that you hold some of the same values as >I. Yes, I think so. But sustainability and so on or whatever is a project with me. I'm a journalist: though they might not look like it these are all journalism projects for me, including this list, including Journey to Forever. At its foundation it's Fourth Estate stuff, against injustice and exploitation. This is what my friend Cecil Rajendra said: "It becomes no longer a matter of choice, but the moral obligation and bounden duty of every responsible writer to bear witness to the times he lives in and to put his life and his work at the service of humanity." http://journeytoforever.org/keith_cecil.html Cecil Rajendra "What's that got to do with biofuels?" LOL! >However, it is apparent from your rebuttals that you disagree with >me. Will you graciously indulge me by (re)stating exactly what you >perceive the problem to be and what you feel we can do to fix it? Your brush is getting a bit broad. My original response was to David Crabb: >>... but right now, supposedly it is a full time job doing politics, so the >>average person wouldn't have time >>to research all the issues in order to make an informed decision. > >... so instead you prefer to cede your responsibilities to others, >who somehow out of the sheer goodness of their hearts do "have the >time" that you don't have. How trusting to believe that they'll take >them on for you and of course continue to do full honour to you and >your concerns and needs. > >What you can then expect to happen is that your rights will be >purloined and abused, as indeed they have been and continue to be. > >Three things you'll have to put right - or rather repossess - before >democracy becomes a real option in the US again: the education >system, the media, and the price-tag on a candidate's campaign. Also >your citizenship - no citizenship for corporations! (Study the >history of corporations.) While other interests - corporate mainly - >control these institutions you'll be much closer to Curtis's dreams >of slavery than to any sort of citizenship, no matter how >comfortably buffered with consumer durables your slavery might be. That's a bit more specific. I think what it boils down to, Bryan, is that you perhaps think small is powerless, you do believe most people are apathetic, lazy, helpless. I don't agree with that at all. You seem to think that it's not worthwhile opposing corporate power - a wolf is a wolf, it can be expected to behave like one. I've noted many instances of apparently powerless individuals, small groups, grass-roots efforts with zilch resources bringing corporations to a grinding halt. You might not see that because you might doubt that such "ordinary people" had enough sense (or lack of apathy and laziness) to get anything right to any significant (?) degree. I fully agree with your lack of faith in your society's institutions, but fully disagree with your lack of faith in society itself, in the communities and individuals it's made up of. What we humans do most of the time, the single activity that we do more than anything else, is cooperate with each other. It's so ubiquitous that usually we don't even notice it - like water to a fish. All of our societies are very expert at this, and have been for a very long time or they didn't survive. It goes right back to our pre-human beginnings, if anything is programmed into us this is. Do unto others... "Modern" developments (?), many of them, run counter to this, tending towards social alienation; in the case of advertising and much PR, they deliberately cultivate dissatisfaction, envy, an unhealthy and anti-cooperative competitiveness and acquisitiveness. Which in turn is all part and parcel of other very negative "developments". This wanton and cynical distortion of our lives and our world must be recognised for what it is, it can and should be and is being opposed and countered, rather effectively in many cases. Stoicism and nihilism in these issues is misplaced and uncalled for, and counter-productive. IMHO. Best wishes Keith >Best Regards, > > > >-BRAH ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! 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