You are correct but, some of the legal issues and the like are now outdated. For example the 25mph speed limit and the 35 mph speed road application limit are now law and approved as an electric vehicle for use in all of California. There might be some varying rules in other states to contend with. That will be up to the individual and his/her state to deal with for now as there is little chance of crossing borders with these 30 mile limited vehicles. The Chrysler GEM is still in production; http://www.gemcar.com/htmls/GemPressRel.asp There are also some specs there too. Interestingly enough, the Gem is available on the web from quite a few Chrysler dealers. The price varys basically by the extra's you want but averages $7,000.00 + tax,lic.,etc. To make it more interesting, there are today 2 on E-Bay at $2,995.00 and are new. There are a few strings attached from the dealer selling them but still quite a price difference. On the positive side, if enough of these are sold in America in a reasonable enough time frame, the manufacturer of these Gem's will probably end up with a Gem golf cart and a Gem Kiddielac that would do 65 on the highway if the demand for them was there. While the EV-1 was a good deal for those who knew and understood, it was scary for those who didn't. As an example, here is a used Gem for $2,000 traded in to upgrade to a bigger one by a senior; I think I'll try this out because they are all over the parking lot at the grocery store, but sign a lease for that price for an EV-1, not me, until I know more about it. This holds people back and soon 3-5 years has passed and they forgot about it. Letting the seniors begin the education is not a bad way to make people comfortable about alternatives, (electrics in this case). Seeing them every time you go to the grocery store also makes people comfortable about them. You are correct in the California ZEV mandate manipulation as well. I concur on your being upset about the car companys not making a real one to satisfy the demand. Unfortunately politics and big oil won that one but there will be more in the near future as soon as the companys see the profit line, they will come back..... Bob
murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Robert: You are referring to Neighborhood Electric Vehicles. They're limited to something like 25 mph, and this is a legal issue as well as a technological one. That is, I think legally they cannot travel on roads above 35 mph speed limits. Basically somewhat better than golf carts, but along the same lines. Ford Think Neighbor's been discontinued. I have lost track of whether the Daimler Chrysler GEM is still in production. GM was talking about outsourcing one being made for them. Basically, they were made in part as a way for these car companies to dodge making real highway capable electric vehicles, but lo and behold, many people like them. I'm a fan of them in principle, since some of their owners seem to really love the, but only under some circumstances, such as in an area where their slower rate of travel will not cause them to be in the way. And I keep in mind that it's disgusting that the car companies choose to make these not just to satisfy demand for NEVs, but to avoid satisfying the demand for real highway capable vehicles. The California ZEV mandate required a certain number of zero emission vehicles to be on the road by a certain point, and, while the legal maneuverings were going on, these NEVs were latched-onto by some of the car companies as a way to put ZEVs on the road without giving folks the real thing. Note that I cc: this to the NEV group on yahoo, and they could probably tell you a lot more, and give you first-hand experience reports which I don't have. The website is here: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/NEVs/ It gives some links to info about some of the cars. MM >On another subject; > >Out of nowhere at a family get together last week, a discussion began about >the small electric vehicles being sold today to the seniors. I am told that >these are not golf carts but something more sophisticated. I am not yet >familiar with them but was told that they will move quite briskly down the >road. It was suggested by some in the conversation that these little vehicles, >(electric), could replace the automobile for many. > >This idea was expanded upon in the discussion with suggestions by some that I >only rarely, (once a week or so), need to go out on the freeways and the like >to get somewhere I need to go. Their thoughts were simply to use the electric >cart to go to the auto rental agency and get a gasoline car for the day >similar to what many do at the other end of their airline flight. > >I was also amused at some of their logic. They expanded on the idea with >justifications like no license fees, (they are presently out of whack in >California today), no sales tax, no maintenance, no depreciation, probable >reduced insurance costs because it would only be needed for the rental car, >multiple people usage for an out of town event whereby others were going as >well; 6 can travel for the same price as 1 or 2, etc.......... > >One of the people at the gathering was on the city council of a small town, >(Gridley) and made the comment that these little vehicles were all over her >town every day. She also stated that Gridley is an old town, (over 100 years), >so it would not be uncommon to have a larger then usual amount of elderly >living and moving around there. She also stated that she thought that these >vehicles could do about 25 miles per hour as a top speed. Apparently she has >seen many of them with things like patio umbrella's attached to them and was >pleasingly amused by it. > >I am going to investigate this further and will let everyone knoiw what I find >out. > >Herein lies a possible way to not only reduce gasoline and other fuel >requirements for many and help solve the shortage and smog problems at the >same time. These little devils are probably low voltage and solar panel >charging may well be a possiblilty at the same time; (no load on the grid)..., >a solar panel might be the new umbrella to keep the sun off of the occupants. >I was also told that some of them have some foul weather protection systems >available too. > >Interesting just where new idea's can come from isn't it?...... > >Bob > > > >Hakan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Bob, > >One thing is to close your mind to development, and completely other is to >(mis)use a technology for political and corporate reasons. Hydrogen have >been researched and used for around 100 years. We know a lot about hydrogen >and therefore we can do quite good assessment of its suitability for the >suggested new general application. It is very many problems that must be >solved for this use and it is not "ready for use" yet. As well as you have >to have an open mind, you must also react on the current presentation of >Hydrogen as a "silver bullet" for our energy problems. It is not ready to >assume that role and by doing this promotion, the effect is that the minds >get closed on other viable and maybe better "ready for use" solutions. > >Hakan > >At 11:58 AM 7/3/2003 -0700, you wrote: >><snip> >> >>To all; >> >>Do not hold back on your opinions in these discussions. Just think back to >>some past date when someone told you something that you didn't know and >>you were so surprised that you commented; Boy, I would never have thought >>of that, what an idea!! Off we go with another path that may well lead to >>a new idea, process, or outright discovery. The big boys call them a >>"THINK TANK"........We can do it too....... >> >>Bob > > > >Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! 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