It is somewhat dependant on the incoming air temperature, the higher the incoming temp, the less fuel they have to use for a given power output. In general it is my understanding that they are better than conventional ICEs.
Greg H. ----- Original Message ----- From: murdoch To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 10:11 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Microturbines vs fuel cells Does anyone know the upper limits of energy efficiency on these turbines? I know with a conventional ICE engine, a major reason for looking to fuel cells as alternatives is that ICE engines are permanently limited by Carnot Cycle inefficiencies. Even though many fuel cells are not yet above 40-50% efficiency, their theoretical efficiencies are much higher than ICE engines. Is this also true of Microturbines? The HEV success stories on the page you link all appear to be very large vehicles (busses). I wonder if there's a reason. MM On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:48:22 +0000, you wrote: >Hi, > >I'm really excited about these microturbines. The tubine/generator shaft is >supported on air bearings. There aren't any lubricants. The things will run >24/7 with minimal maintenance only needing an air filter change once a year >or so. The exhaust is exceedingly clean. They will run on diesel, biodiesel, >kerosene, and probably ethanol. They can also run on gaseous fuels such as >natural gas, propane, LNG, and I am sure they could be adjusted for hydrogen >when and if that becomes available. Which leaves me wondering WHY do we need >fuel cells? Right now, we have a running technology, Hakan's ready to use >technology, that apparently can do all, and more, of what is expected with a >fuel cell. They can be used as the power source in a hybrid vehicle. I >believe the problem with turbines in a direct drive vehicle was the >difficulty of controlling accesleration and start up time. That wouldn't >appear to be a problem in a hybrid that basically needs an engine running at >a constant output. > >I think they need to try and downsize the turbines to the output for a house >sized unit. Then, put one in the house and turn it on, fueled with biodiesel. >Turn off the power company. It can set up as a cogen, so one has space heat, >hot water, and electricity, all at the same time. > >Do we really need to wait all of those years for a fuel cell? > >Derek > >> Hi Derek, how goes? >> >> Thanks for the links. >> >> >I've been looking about the Internet at the new HEVs and have come across >> >these sites, which I don't recall being mentioned recently on this list. I >> >felt they make an interesting read. >> > >> >http://www.microturbine.com/caseStudies/hevCase1.asp >> > >> >Use of a microturbine for buses in an HEV application. Burning either diesel >> >or CNG. There are a lot of applications mentioned for these turbines with >> >mention of advantages over ICEs relative to noise, exhaust polution, >> >maintenance, etc. > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
