You still weren't listening to what I said (in your hurry to disprove it because I mentioned the awful, terrible name of 'infopop biodiesel forum'. I don' t always agree with what Neutral reports (or anyone else on any forum for that matter, you, me, ken,keith, whomever, we all get confused by things and we all have agendas to prove or disprove a favorite technique) - but he's not the only place I mentioned this reverse reaction info comes from.
(and you ignored the patents part. Over on infopop 'they're' not exactly yakking it up about this issue - yes, it s not common, nor are the agitated conditions for it to occur common, so it's not surprising that you and I haven't seen it ourselves. If you'd like more information from actual real people who've worked on this problem rather than me relating to you some internet anecdote that hasn't happened to me personally, please call Jon Van Gerpen at Iowa State University- he's been recently investigating this exact reverse reaction phenomenon in regards to methanol recovery prior to separation in continuous process plants (and no it;'s not a common problem, and yes, their school has a GC so theres little guesswork involved in the research). His phone number is all over the www.me.iastate.edu/biodiesel webpage. Really! you can do it). now back to homebrewing: I explained quite clearly that my cloudiness (and wash problem) was due to glycerine suspended which hadn't previously been happening, which I assume has something to do with not evaporating any methanol off, like my not-quite-sealed unit may have been doing. Not rocket science. Im actually curious if anyone ever gets perfectly clear unwashed fuel with just a couple of days of settling in a sealed processor, or if that clarity is just a relic of open-top units. The processor in question has a biodiesel drain that uses a standpipe , and I drain out the little bit of glycerol that collects in the standpipe first, so there's not an issue of contamination by bottom-draining (I think Todd's been rightly worried about this potential problem before). ANyway the whole issue for me is that separation is sometimes a problem even for homebrewers (the industry literature is full of anxiety about good separation, which homebrewers don't worry about, because time does the trick for us since we don't have to worry about fast throughput). and of course methanol recovery would help that. I also think based on my experience with heated washing that you're just being stubborn and are knocking it from the safety of your own armchair. If you had tried it, you'd see that no, biodiesel and water, oil and water, whatever your'e washing, all separate much quicker with a heated wash, and you just about can't get emulsion with a heated bubblewash. Come on, you can try it- even before furiously writing anything- just go to the lab, pick up a sample of unwashed fuel, and do a wash test on it, heated (put the jar into a water bath with a lid on the jar so the methanol doesn't evaporate) against a cold control of the same exact fuel. It'll make a difference, I promise you. Now the issue is not whether it's worth the BTU''s- that's not what you said- you were just promising that it'd cause worse emulsion problems and I can basically promise anybody that it's going to be the opposite- based on experience in my case. By the way I had a weird accident this summer where I accidentaly left some bubblewashing fuel on a timer with the heat also on a timer for a week. It wasn't great fuel and it was on it's first wash- prime candidate for emulsification due to overagitation. The heat timer would go on every day and a couple of hours later the bubbler would kick on bubbling for a couple of hours. The temperature was probably 110F by the time the bubbling started. Now this was a terrible waste of heat and electricity!!! and was an accident- but it had an interesting result. The fuel not only didn't emulsify, but it was 'done washing' at the end of the week, with no wash water changes (that's a pretty good balance of biodiesel to water). What I was using as a criteria for 'done washing' was the fact that it cleared it's water haze at room temperature within a few hours of being turned off ( I check for water haze by cooling a sample in the freezer in the summer). Mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Maria, > > Pumps tend to aereate when the return is not below the fluid line. > Splashing, agitation, aereation....almost all the same kettle of phish. > > Still, it shouldn't matter one whit when it comes to clarity, as even the > most micro of bubbles should come out of solution rather quickly. > > > > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Appal Energy" > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Maria, > > > > > > > > > You might care to reconsider the use of heated water or > > adding > > > > water to > > > > > heated fuel when washing. The heat lends to emulsion > > > > formation more readily > > > > > than water at ambient temperatures. While this is not so > > > > problematic with > > > > > relatively clean parent stock, it can prove to be very ugly with > > > > feedstocks > > > > > that titrate higher and are processed only with straight base > > > > (greater > > > > > presence of soap). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > > > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list > > address. > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------ Yahoo! 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