>On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 01:15 PM, the_maniacal_engineer >wrote: > > > When I first heard this it was about osama bin laden - a man who wants > > to forcibly impose sharia law on the entire world. under sharia law > > (at least the extreme version that osama holds) jews and christians > > must pay an extra tax. pagans and aetheists must convert or be > > executed. > > > > I later heard this joke told about saddam hussein. he and his sons > > killed millions of people in their reign of iraq, including the > > enlightened practice of having men hired to 'deprive women of their > > virtue' as a political reprisal against their family (ie these men > > were professional, government supported rapists) and the even more > > enlightened practice of droppping live enemies into a chipper. If > > Iraqi's continue to die at the current rate they are still thousands > > of people per year ahead of the death rate attribuatble to saddam. > > > > Now I see this story about GWB who caused countless americans to > > die... well not countless... OK so about 500... but 500 is alot.. > > anyway he did it so that we could get the oil for free ... except .... > > we buy it at market rates.... but it makes halliburton rich.... except > > that they are being watched like a hawk and had to return 60million in > > overcharges... but he sure is as bad as saddam. Just look at all of > > the professional rapists on the DOJ payroll....... OK well, look at > > how GWB is trampling the rule of law by imposing religious rules in > > alabama courthouses.... oh wait they had to take that out. But the > > evil right wing reactionary conspiracy has thwarted the rule of the > > people by issuing fraudulent marriage licenses in violation of the > > california state con...sti..tution... no wait - that was gay activist > > mayor/judges.. > > > >Did they really kill millions?
Nope. The US- and UK-backed sanctions against Iraq killed at least half a million children though, as intended. "In 1998, the UN carried out a nationwide survey of health and nutrition. It found that mortality rates among children under five in central and southern Iraq had doubled from the previous decade. That would suggest 500,000 excess deaths of children by 1998. Excess deaths of children continue at the rate of 5,000 a month. UNICEF estimated in 2002 that 70 percent of child deaths in Iraq result from diarrhea and acute respiratory infections. This is the result-as foretold accurately by U.S. intelligence in 1991-of the breakdown of systems to provide clean water, sanitation, and electrical power. Adults, too, particularly the elderly and other vulnerable sections, have succumbed. The overall toll, of all ages, was put at 1.2 million in a 1997 UNICEF report. "The evidence of the effect of the sanctions came from the most authoritative sources. Denis Halliday, UN humanitarian coordinator in Iraq from 1997 to 1998, resigned in protest against the operation of the sanctions, which he termed deliberate "genocide." He was replaced by Hans von Sponeck, who resigned in 2000, on the same grounds. Jutta Burghardt, director of the UN World Food Program operation in Iraq, also resigned, saying, "I fully support what Mr. von Sponeck was saying." "There is no room for doubt that genocide was conscious U.S. policy. On May 12, 1996, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was asked by Lesley Stahl of CBS television: "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?" Albright replied: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it."" -- From: Behind the War on Iraq by the Research Unit for Political Economy Monthly Review May 2003 Research Unit for Political Economy is based in Mumbai, India. The group publishes the journal Aspects of India's Economy and a range of research publications in English and Hindi. http://www.monthlyreview.org/0503rupe.htm I suggest you read the whole report, it will certainly give you a very much clearer and less muddied picture than Chris Stratford has managed to do. Read this one too while you're at it: http://www.scn.org/ccpi/HarpersJoyGordonNov02.html Cool War: Economic sanctions as a weapon of mass destruction By Joy Gordon Harper's Magazine November 2002 Plenty more, but those should do for a start. >I hadn't thought of it that way before. Well don't start now! Best Keith > I mean, >if those people were killing their countrymen and women by the millions, >and only a few 10s of thousands have been hurt (I don't have an >estimate of >how accurate it is, but I read somewhere an >estimate that something like as many as 90,000 people have been injured >due to this Iraq venture, including, I think, on the order of 10,000 >total killed) due >to this war then it sounds like we got to play god and save lives by >killing people. > > I guess my question is, should we really be trying to be gods? >If we estimated that millions more would die in the next few years due >to >the brutal Hussein rule, and went to war to prevent that it essentially >means we killed a few thousand people immediately to save the lives >of a presumably greater number of unknown people whom >we guess would die otherwise at some unspecified >time. Furthermore, we did this without even seriously attempting >some other solution(s) that could have saved the millions in the future >while sacrificing fewer or none in the present, even though we knew very >well that we could be wrong about our guess. > > Wouldn't it be nice if everyone on the planet adopted a policy of >doing their best to >never under any circumstances allow the lives of anyone, including >their own, >to get worse, or caused to have a increased chance of getting worse? > > In this case, if all our government employees, from the bigwigs at the >top to the worker bees at the bottom, were to have that policy enforced >upon >them as official policy on pain of discharge, we would have poured the >full >might of the US government into the problem of saving the millions in >the >future while not sacrificing the thousands in the now. Actually, now >that I >think of it, this could be a useful policy for the US government to >have regarding the >whole world. Think of how many lives could be saved, and even improved! > >Chris > > > > > > what was the middle part? > > > > Oh yeah, I can see the equivalence between saddam and GWB. > > > > Yep. > > > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Actually, there is a third answer to this... > >> ............................ > >> > >> Moral Dilemma... > >> This test only has one question, but it's a very important one. > > <snip> > >> Suddenly you see a man in the water - he is fighting for his life, > > trying > >> not to be taken away by the masses of water and mud. You move closer. > >> Somehow the man looks familiar. Suddenly you know who it is - it's > > George W. > >> Bush! > >> You have two options. You can save him or you can take the best photo > >> of > >> your life. You can't do both. > >> Here's the question (please give an honest answer): > >> Would you select color film, or instead go for the simplicity of > > classic > >> black and white? 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