Hallo Tad, Monday, 29 March, 2004, 06:44:21, you wrote:
...snip... TJ> Do we simply sit back and watch this happen every few years and TJ> not do anything about it? Is it somehow our fault that we were TJ> attacked on 9-11? Is it ok for terrorists to attack and kill not TJ> only Americans but also many other nationalities simply for their TJ> own twisted religious views by the thousands? TJ> I'm not sure what the answers are to these questions, but I'm not TJ> sure sitting back and doing nothing is responsible either. ...snip... "Is it somehow our fault that we were attacked on 9-11?" Yes, we have to accept some of the responsibility for that attack ourselves. Our government has made choices, often poor, evil and self-serving choices, which have pushed people into the state of mind they are now in. If you look at the history of the modern state of Israel you will find that its inception is rooted in terrorism and that it is, in fact, the largest sponsor of terrorism on the planet today. None of Israels actions are steps towards peace but rather are steps towards conquest and control. And who do you think has supported this terrorism? Uncle Sam. Now Pat Boone sings a nice song and perhaps God did give the entire region to Israel, but the deed was never registered and made public and there is a dispute over those claims. Particularly since the Israel of today is 10 times larger than the Israel of the old testament Israel. Brings the word "Lebensraum" to mind. Now brother, suppose the Canadian or Mexican army came across the borders and began blowing up hotels, assassinating officials and military officers, killing off political figures and businessmen, bulldozing houses and destroying farms, killing civilians, targeting people's eyes or knees, building walls and fences and roping folks off, disallowing freedom of movement, destroying the economy and making paupers and serfs out of our citizens all the while calling anyone who fought back against such outrage "terrorists". Further suppose that the state doing this to us was supported by the richest and most powerful nation on earth. Given carte blanche. "Do anything you want to them. We will back you." After several decades of such treatment do you not suppose that we would be striking out not only against those directly oppressing us but at those supporting them? It is only reasonable. Suppose further that this was taken before the UN and while there were numerous resolutions concerning both sides that powerful nation and a good share of the rest of the world insisted that ONLY the resolutions concerning us needed to be upheld and they just blew off the resolutions concerning our attackers. Might that not tend to piss a poor boy off? Suppose that the occupying nation made it a practice to assassinate the moderates among us and the most dangerous of the radicals so that they HAD to deal with the radicals because they killed off the reasonable leaders? That is precisely an Israeli tactic and we support them. If we are going to hold others accountable for their actions we need to be accountable for our own. Nothing is happening in a vacuum and whether or not we like it there are reasons for the 911 attack which are understandable. That doesn't make it right but at least understandable. If we are unwilling to accept the responsiblilty for our actions we can hardly ask anyone else to do so. We also need to remember that what goes around does come around. Everyone needs to remember that. As long as the catch phrases remain "bottom line" and "national interest" then we are not talking about behaving responsibily. Until we become (as a world) reasonable, responsible, disciplined and restrained we are going to have to expect things such as 911 and the like to happen. If we can't see any further down the road than the end of our noses we better get some spectacles and if we continue to allow one people anywhere to be oppressed then we are not doing our job as human beings. Fanatics only grow where the soil is fertile. It would behoove us not to fertilize that soil. That is irresponsible as is holding one people to one standard and another to a different standard. Let us speak plainly and call things what they are. The Israelis are as much terrorists as the Palestinians or anyone else. Because they happen to be a state only lends the appearance of legitimacy to their acts but does not make their acts right or reasonable. Is what I am saying "anti-semitism"? No. Speaking against any violence is only reasonable and responsible. Calling aggression and hostility by one side "self-defense" and that of the other side "terrorism" is only political maneuvering and obfuscation and in the end totally dishonest. We all need to clean up our own houses and take the responsibility for our actions. TJ> If you remember factual data about world war II is that we were TJ> totally neutral until YOU and France became under attack and asked TJ> for our assistance, of which we gave without asking for anything TJ> in return. We are allies and have been since after our declaration TJ> of independence from you. We are allies as well with most of the TJ> rest of the world. If you are speaking to Keith here I do not remember South Africa asking for our assistance in the war. TJ> When there is a disaster in any country, including countries who TJ> "hate" us, we still send our red cross and disaster relief TJ> immediately. We send our best trained doctors all over the world TJ> to help children and others in need and never ask for anything in TJ> return, not even a "thank you". We have more humanitarian TJ> organizations than most any other country in the world. We also TJ> share massive amounts of technology for growing food, resources TJ> and technologies that help clean the air with many other TJ> countries. Brother, this reasoning is a bit like cigarette companies telling one to go to their web site for help with quitting smoking. And brother, if one expects a "thank you" or anything else for a good deed then it isn't really a good deed is it? It is sort of like expecting to be paid for a "gift". TJ> Do we make mistakes and have corporate officers who do stupid TJ> things or act out of greed? Of course, what country does not? Do TJ> we have people who lie to cover up their mistakes and or TJ> indiscretions? Certainly, just like every other country in the TJ> world. Is it right? Absolutely not, and if you see our court TJ> sessions pressing charges against most of these people then you TJ> would realize our whole country is not infiltrated with these TJ> types of people, but rather just like everyone else, we have them. Problem is brother you have to go after entire industries and you have to make THEM hurt financially but that isn't what happens. One or two people fall on their swords and it is business as usual. But they get smarter and cover their tracks better. TJ> If it were my world everyone would stop building homes with wood TJ> and find an alternative like concrete or some other material. The TJ> forests would not be harvested. If it were my world we would TJ> simply tell everyone else to keep peace with us and we would keep TJ> peace with them. If it were my world we would not be burning any TJ> form of liquid fuel, especially fossil fuels. If it were my world TJ> we would not have nuclear arsenals. If it were my world we would TJ> work together as one planet helping each other clean up the mess TJ> we are making and help each other grow more food and help more TJ> people....together. If it were my world everyone would realize TJ> that wether they like it or not, we are all brothers and sisters, TJ> period, and we need to treat each other as such. If it were my TJ> world there would be no divorce, no orphans, no rape, murder, TJ> genocide. There would be no need to grasp for the "old mighty TJ> dollar". We would all be working on these things and working as a TJ> team to colonize other planets and not make the same mistakes we TJ> have made with this one. Well, it is your world. You have a sphere of influence. Get yourself together and help anyone else get it together that you are able. Be the best example of a good person you can. If you have to take a side then take the side of good. Eschew partisan politics, national interest and economic gain if it does not further the good (and I am sure you will find it does not). Exhibit the same restraint, responsibility and discipline you expect from others. Tell the truth and be honest to a fault. Speak plainly and openly and honestly. Cultivate a sense of personal honor which is based on doing good and not on some artificial standard. Expect nothing in return and if there is some return be grateful for it. What good and decent people are doing and understanding around the world is that what we are talking about here cannot be legislated or imposed. It is spread by example and education. An evolutionary process which is painfully slow but in the end necessary for meaningful and lasting change for the better. We need to measure our words and stand back and look at things without prejudice one way or the other. Anything else ought to be beneath us and anything else would make us one of "them". Please do not take this as a flame or personal attack as such is not my intention. I speak only for patience and reason and responsibility and for the good. TJ> I will not respond to any more political posts simply because I TJ> now clearly see it aggravates you, even though I find them TJ> humorous. It is not my intent to anger anyone here, even though at TJ> the time it looked as though you were directly asking for opinions TJ> on your political post. Thus, I am going to leave with a smile of TJ> gratitude towards you knowing that I cannot comprehend why TJ> political discussions need to take place here and will simply look TJ> forward to questions and answers about this solution to some of TJ> these problems, the one we call "Biodiesel". Political discussion happen because politics is intimately connected with everything in this world and these discussions will hopefully lead to better understanding of one another and the situation we all live in. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli ******** The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters" ******** Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewšhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. ******** Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. 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