Keith, I join your efforts!
I am the strongest proponent of returning biomass to soil as soil amendment. I began the world's largest composting program twelve years ago. Now it is returning 1.2 million tons per year of ag wastes back to farmland as soil amendment each year. Please consider that converting the carbon molecule in cellulose from a high grade ethanol feedstock to a lower grade soil amendment will work only if the ethanol wastes are taken back to the area where the crops were produced. The farmer enters an unspoken agreement with nature that, if a crop is produced, the residues must be put back into the soil to regenerate the soil. We are now in a society where wastes can be moved hundreds of miles from their production location and never make it back. Landfills are a classic example. I am on a personal mission to recover organic wastes currently going into landfills first as biogas and return those residues to soil as soil amendment. Keep organics out of the landfill completely - they are a soil resource and a landfill is a needless waste of the product. Biogas biology has had a recent revolution making the economics much more favorable and the gas can easily be burned in stationary diesel engines to produce electricity and recoverable heat energy. I have a national model which takes each community water treatment biodigester and converts it into an improved biogas and soil amendment producer from biosolids and food wastes. Keep blowing the soil health/fertility/sustainability bugle and I will form up with you. Art Krenzel, P.E. PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES 10505 NE 285TH Street Battle Ground, WA 98604 360-666-1883 voice [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 2:29 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Cellulose-Alcohol story. Hello RR >If this story is true, it would be of monumental importance. >Billions of tons of this stuff (cellulose) must be produced yearly >around the world, in association with food production. >What is the holdup, with exploiting this technology? >If India/China needs fuel for cars, here it is. >The lack of press coverage, is disappointing >and suspicious. In the US?? Well yes, excellent general statement, but you shouldn't be surprised. Anyway, two things about cellulose. Much of what would be available would be crop wastes, and that there might be billions of tons of it doesn't necessarily mean it's up for grabs. Crop wastes need to be returned to the soil if there's of be much of a future for crop production. Richer countries can postpone it a bit with chemical fertilisers, and end up with worse problems in the longer run, but poorer countries often can't even afford to do that. So endless supplies of ethanol fuel might have to bear the ever-soaring costs of denuded farmlands, and those costs tend to spill out well beyond the farm fence. Not worth it. It would need planned cellulose production, perhaps as a crop by-product, but not at the expense of soil fertility. Second, there's quite a lot of information here: Ethanol from cellulose http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#cellulose Best Keith >RR >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have also been trying to keep half an eye on them (Iogen itself is > > not publicly traded, which makes this a bit of a challenge, even if > > some of its investors apparently are), and on Genencor (stock symbol > > GCOR here in the US), and although riored's question was blunt, it > > does sort of summarize my own standing question about a lot of > > companies, particularly in this field. > > > > This field I have labled as important because of the DOE's comments > > some years ago as to the economic importance of turning cellulosic > > matter into ethanol. According to them, such an advance was more or > > less necessary - the key - to making ethanol more sustainable and > > economically viable in the U.S. This was in response to many of the > > questions as to the pricing and volumes available for Ethanol. > > > > I do *not* think such an argument by them should be taken at face > > value without questioning or discussion, but I did take it under > > advisement that some of the basis for the argument seemed to make >some > > sense ... i.e., taking matter which, without the ethanol >advancement, > > would have limited value, labled by some as "waste", and adding a > > value to it. > > > > For some reason, I don't know why, I have Iogen ranked in my mind as > > "less full of it than GCOR". From your update, I can see that Iogen > > has been in "we're working on it in the lab" mode similar to GCOR, >and > > has received government research funding monies for awhile, also > > similar to GCOR. > > > > Last I checked with them, two or three years ago, mutual fund NALFX, > > one of the only really super-strict-interpretationist > > clean-technology-mutual-funds, (very small, modest long-term returns > > at best, but long-established since '82) had a stake in GCOR, or at > > least I think they did, ... they were following it... because of > > GCOR's ethanol angle. If nothing else, this helps illustrate the > > difficulty for clean-technology-fund-managers in finding biofuel > > investments outside of such as ADM. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:30:33 -0400, you wrote: > > > > >"riored96" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> Is Iogen for real,or bs. > > >> http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/04/22/sci-tech/biofuel040422 > > >> > > > > > >I guess it depends what you mean by "for real". The company is >real. They have at > > >least 2 buildings here in the Ottawa area. They have had displays >at several > > >environmental events that I have attended over the past decade. I >have had some > > >contact with them over the years, and until very recently, they >were not producing > > >ethanol beyond the lab scale. They have been receiving grants and >monies from a > > >couple of petroleum companies (Shell and Petro-Canada) over the >years to continue > > >research on producing ethanol from cellulose stock. They have >certainly had > > >support from our federal minister of the Environment for years. > > > > > >As for the efficiency of the process, or how well it has scaled up, >I have no idea. > > > > > >The truck that appeared in the TV item I saw belonged to a local >petroleum retailer > > >(MacEwen's), that have been one of the strongest local proponents >of ethanol > > >blended gasoline for several years now. > > > > > >The one print article I have seen was a bit of a mess (Ottawa >Citzen newspaper), > > >rather in keeping with my expectations of the Canadian mass media. > > > > > >Darryl McMahon Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. 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