I agree with the idea of returning ag waste to the cropland, but there are other sources. A large percentage of cellulosic biomass comes from cities, parks within cities, housing complexes, suburbs. Everytime I take a drive into the more populated areas in the spring, summer, and fall, I see town, village and city crews picking up trees, shrubs and anything else they can fit through their shredder to take to their "woodchip piles". This may not be enough to supply a large ethanol facility, but if coordinated correctly, it could maybe sustain a small facility continuously if close to the source of biomass. Jonathan.
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello RR > > >If this story is true, it would be of monumental importance. > >Billions of tons of this stuff (cellulose) must be produced yearly > >around the world, in association with food production. > >What is the holdup, with exploiting this technology? > >If India/China needs fuel for cars, here it is. > >The lack of press coverage, is disappointing > >and suspicious. > > In the US?? Well yes, excellent general statement, but you shouldn't > be surprised. > > Anyway, two things about cellulose. Much of what would be available > would be crop wastes, and that there might be billions of tons of it > doesn't necessarily mean it's up for grabs. Crop wastes need to be > returned to the soil if there's of be much of a future for crop > production. Richer countries can postpone it a bit with chemical > fertilisers, and end up with worse problems in the longer run, but > poorer countries often can't even afford to do that. So endless > supplies of ethanol fuel might have to bear the ever-soaring costs of > denuded farmlands, and those costs tend to spill out well beyond the > farm fence. Not worth it. It would need planned cellulose production, > perhaps as a crop by-product, but not at the expense of soil > fertility. > > Second, there's quite a lot of information here: > > Ethanol from cellulose > http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#cellulose > > Best > > Keith > > > > >RR > > > > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I have also been trying to keep half an eye on them (Iogen itself is > > > not publicly traded, which makes this a bit of a challenge, even if > > > some of its investors apparently are), and on Genencor (stock symbol > > > GCOR here in the US), and although riored's question was blunt, it > > > does sort of summarize my own standing question about a lot of > > > companies, particularly in this field. > > > > > > This field I have labled as important because of the DOE's comments > > > some years ago as to the economic importance of turning cellulosic > > > matter into ethanol. According to them, such an advance was more or > > > less necessary - the key - to making ethanol more sustainable and > > > economically viable in the U.S. This was in response to many of the > > > questions as to the pricing and volumes available for Ethanol. > > > > > > I do *not* think such an argument by them should be taken at face > > > value without questioning or discussion, but I did take it under > > > advisement that some of the basis for the argument seemed to make > >some > > > sense ... i.e., taking matter which, without the ethanol > >advancement, > > > would have limited value, labled by some as "waste", and adding a > > > value to it. > > > > > > For some reason, I don't know why, I have Iogen ranked in my mind as > > > "less full of it than GCOR". From your update, I can see that Iogen > > > has been in "we're working on it in the lab" mode similar to GCOR, > >and > > > has received government research funding monies for awhile, also > > > similar to GCOR. > > > > > > Last I checked with them, two or three years ago, mutual fund NALFX, > > > one of the only really super-strict-interpretationist > > > clean-technology-mutual-funds, (very small, modest long-term returns > > > at best, but long-established since '82) had a stake in GCOR, or at > > > least I think they did, ... they were following it... because of > > > GCOR's ethanol angle. If nothing else, this helps illustrate the > > > difficulty for clean-technology-fund-managers in finding biofuel > > > investments outside of such as ADM. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:30:33 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > >"riored96" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Is Iogen for real,or bs. > > > >> http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/04/22/sci-tech/biofuel040422 > > > >> > > > > > > > >I guess it depends what you mean by "for real". The company is > >real. They have at > > > >least 2 buildings here in the Ottawa area. They have had displays > >at several > > > >environmental events that I have attended over the past decade. I > >have had some > > > >contact with them over the years, and until very recently, they > >were not producing > > > >ethanol beyond the lab scale. They have been receiving grants and > >monies from a > > > >couple of petroleum companies (Shell and Petro-Canada) over the > >years to continue > > > >research on producing ethanol from cellulose stock. They have > >certainly had > > > >support from our federal minister of the Environment for years. > > > > > > > >As for the efficiency of the process, or how well it has scaled up, > >I have no idea. > > > > > > > >The truck that appeared in the TV item I saw belonged to a local > >petroleum retailer > > > >(MacEwen's), that have been one of the strongest local proponents > >of ethanol > > > >blended gasoline for several years now. > > > > > > > >The one print article I have seen was a bit of a mess (Ottawa > >Citzen newspaper), > > > >rather in keeping with my expectations of the Canadian mass media. > > > > > > > >Darryl McMahon ------------------------ Yahoo! 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