apparently humanity is a freak in nature... we are the only animal
wihout a natural predator (that we know so far), this is one of the
reasons we are spreading as a plague.
F.
Pardon me Francisco, but that's just not true at all, none of it.
Spreading as a plague? It's odd how this has become a fashionable
view, that we're a sort of cancer of the planet and perhaps the
sooner we wipe each other and ourselves out the better for everyone
else. It's mainly fashionable in the so-called "developed",
industrialised countries, maybe a fifth of humanity, the other
four-fifths doesn't see it that way at all.
If you look at the eco-footprinting resources, which have become
quite sophisticated, you'll see, surprise surprise, that it's that
same one-fifth whose footprints are so much bigger than their boots
that once you include them we now need two planets not just one. For
our greeds. Remove them from the picture, and there's plenty of
everything.
In fact there's plenty of everything anyway - more than enough for
everyone, more food, for instance, per capita, than there's ever been
before, enough to make everyone fat. So why aren't they? Because
there's also a more inequitable world economic system than there's
ever been before, and you can guess who the beneficiaries of that
are, and at whose expense.
An unfair, rigged, destructive and unsustainable economic system is
not quite the same as writing the species off as a plague.
It's all a myth. Overpopulation, too much breeding? Purely a result
of impoverishment and marginalisation caused by the wealth extraction
and poverty creation that neo-liberal "free" market economics dubs
"wealth creation", and it's easily fixed, given the will. These are
symptoms, not causes.
Have a look at this:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/38640/
* Installation of water and sanitation for all would cost $9 BILLION
plus some annual costs;
$11 BILLION is spent annually on ice cream in Europe.
There's much more there to corroborate it.
It's a similar sort of myth to the Victorian idea, still extant, of
survival of the fittest, the law of the jungle and so on. It served
to justify their colonialist behaviour. Of course you do find that
kind of competition in the jungle, but it's just a minor matter,
maybe only 5% of what goes on there. The real law of the jungle is
symbiosis - cooperation, to which competition is subordinate.
Empire-builders, militarists, the over-ambitious and greedy, the
power-hungry, corporateers, still see things that discredited old
way, for obvious reasons, but that doesn't lend it any substance,
quite the opposite.
I just posted a link to a previous message from a list member about
this as it applies to human society, you should read it:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30694/
As for predators, and humanity being a freak in nature because we
don't have one, that's also not true, not at all. We've always had
predators. But again, we, or many of us, or some of our societies,
have the wrong way of approaching it, and again it's Victorian.
To go back to jungles and forests, you'll find every kind of disease
in a healthy forest, but they don't gain an edge unless the whole
underlying balance is upset. Otherwise they prune, not destroy.
Health is not just the absence of disease, the allopathic approach of
"fighting" disease doesn't give you health. Organic farmers know that
fighting pests is futile and counter-productive - once they've built
a healthy soil (it's alive) with a healthy biodiversity on top of it,
including them, the pests are not a problem, if anything they're an
asset, helping to keep it all in tune.
As for human predators, have a look at this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/beasts/evidence/prog4/page5.shtml
BBC - Science and Nature - Beasts - Dinofelis General Evidence
We call our ancestors cavemen, but they didn't live in caves, they
lived on the savannahs. Predators like these big cats lived in caves,
and dragged their prey back to their cave lairs, leaving their bones,
along with those of other prey. Which gave rise to another whole set
of myths - Man the Killer Ape, also a Victorian view. Anthropologists
(Broom, Dart) discovered fossilised hominid skulls in caves and
fitted long antelope leg bones found nearby to marks on the skulls -
the bones were clubs, they claimed, the apemen had used them to kill
each other in their caves. This led to so much apologism for brutal
human behaviour - it's only natural, it's in our genes, it's the way
we are. Sheer rubbish, all thoroughly debunked now. But the usual
suspects go right on claiming that, debunked or not.
We conquered Dinofelis and other big cats that preyed on us when we
discovered fire. Then we lived through a long Golden Age as
paleolithic hunter-gatherers (some of us had the good sense never to
leave it). We became farmers, learnt husbandry, how to, not "wrest"
(wrestle, force, fight) a living from the land, but how to enter a
partnership with it, for mutual benefit, sustainably. Those that
didn't learn, failed. What happened then?
Have a look at this very interesting thread:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/32840/1/
Re: The Oil we eat
This one focuses more on overpopulation:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/32872/1/
Re: The Oil we eat
(Hit "Click here for more on this subject" for an index to the whole thread.)
We know how to live in harmony with our environment and each other,
and indeed the great majority of us do so, and have always done so.
The main thing we spend our time doing, so much so we don't even
realise it most of the time it's so ingrained, is cooperate with each
other.
No predators? What do you think AIDS is? As Tim points out (and
there's a lot more on all his other points in the archives). Would
you say that the response to the AIDS crisis by the pharmaceutical
corporations and the politicians and bureaucrats they own, to see it
in terms of an opportunity to maximise the bottom line, is typical of
normal human behaviour? They put all that money into developing the
drugs, right? So they deserve to get their money back, patents and so
on. Actually most new drug development is paid for by taxpayers.
Corporations are not human. There's a lot of very good material on
corporations and corporateering in the archives. But I think this is
essential reading - how to kill a mammoth, from Roberto Verzola,
secretary-general of the Philippine Greens:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30617/
So now it's easy to see just what the real plague is, and it's not
us. Nor is it a problem we can't solve. We're going to have to.
Humans are just fine. Their institutions are another matter.
Best wishes
Keith
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Ferguson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 1:37 PM
Subject: RE: Re[2]: [Biofuel] Re: [Off Topic]US to sell 5000 smart
bombs toIsrael
Hello All,
The Human Race is no doubt slowly destroying the
planet we inhabit. This continuous methodical
destruction will at some point reach critical
mass. Debates continue over Global warming with
both side attempting to prove it's existence or
lake thereof. When the focus should be on
addressing the known problems and researching ways
to ensure our future.
It never fails to amaze me that so many people are
enamored with blasting the United States and its
leadership and even going as far as labeling
America the Great Evil and comparing President
Bush to Adolph Hitler. I've read so many post on
this list attacking America and President Bush but
I have not seen any critiquing Sadam Hussein, the
Warlords of the African continent, Kim Chong-il,
or the terrorist who killed hundreds of children
in Chechnya. While it appears to be trendy to
criticize the US and it's leadership I guess these
people get a pass for their most heinous action
http://www.channel4.com/news/2004/06/week_2/09_sud
an.html (Sudan Crisis).
Ethnic cleansing claims the lives of hundreds upon
thousands of innocent people every year. It's this
fact that people from different religious and
ethnic groups around the world can't accept each
other that fuels many of the wars of today. Don't
get me wrong, I don't believe for one minute that
oil is not an important part of why American
troops are in Iraq today. It is a simple fact that
if a country needs a resource that they are
lacking, they will go to war to get it, or protect
it. That is one of the primary reasons for Japan's
invasion of China in WWII and it's attack on Pearl
Harbor. The global shortage of today is primarily
energy, mostly in the form of oil. And it's
getting worse
http://www.janes.com/business/news/fr/fr040421_1_n
.shtml (Oil Crisis). But soon there will be
another major resource that wars will be waged
over
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/w
orld/2000/world_water_crisis/default.stm (Water
Crisis). Which will in turn produce another
resource shortage the will generate even more wars
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0831-01.ht
m (Food Crisis).
But then there is one more crisis that may very
well be the end to resource shortages, wars, and
our planet killing lifestyles.
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns999
96114 (AIDS Epidemic). If this crisis is left
unchecked it could reduce the global population to
levels where the available resources can then meet
the demand and wars will not be so necessary for
ensuring a future existence.
I don't believe governments of the world hold the
solution to our problems. If consumers stop buying
certain products or services all together, then
pretty soon those products and services will be
gone. Countries can correct their unemployment
rates and trade deficits without government
intervention when their citizens buy products
produced within their own country. If we, the
citizens of the world would simply do as I have
read many post hear before, produce some(food,
fuel, etc) for yourself with a little extra for
our neighbor then we can stop the methodical
destruction of our world. But thinking the
governments of this world will take the lead is a
fallacy. It's grass roots or bust!
Of course, who would care what I have to
say...really. I'm just an American "Redneck" with
a low IQ of 160.
If you read this far I hope you can accept me for
who I am and work with me in spite of our
differences so that we can "together" make a
difference in saving this planet we share.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Gustl Steiner-Zehender
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 11:15 AM
To: Keith Addison
Subject: Re[2]: [Biofuel] Re: [Off Topic]US to
sell 5000 smart bombs to
Israel
Hallo All,
Tuesday, 28 September, 2004, 09:39:31, you wrote:
Hi Hakan,
Thanks for your reply, but Luc in a previous
post (Why We Cannot Win),
mentioned it was the duty of a soldier to refuse
to fight in an illegal
war.
KA> Is it a soldier's duty to do whatever he/she's
told?
This is the unfortunate reality...you are
told it is your duty to
refuse an illegal order but if you do refuse
the order you can be
brought up on charges and you WILL be told that
you obey the order and
lodge a complaint later. You are damned if you
do and damned if you
don't. The perfect catch22.
However it plays out you will find that
the responsibility for
anything "wrong" which is done will be placed as
far down the chain of
command as possible and preferably on an
enlisted person. If an
enlisted person cannot be found to be the goat the
responsibility will
fall on the lowest ranking officer possible.
In My Lai it was Lt.
Calley although the Colonel who gave the order
to "waste 'em" should
have been held responsible. At Abu Ghraib it fell
on a female General
who was "in charge" but it should have gone much
higher up the chain
of command.
It works the same way in government "service".
Tenet fell on his sword
but the responsibility really belonged to
Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney
and Bush. The entire intelligence community is
biting the bullet for
the actions of Feith. Colin Powell betrayed
his own honor for the
team and lied through his teeth. There is no
honor in these people
when it comes to covering their own backs.
Happy Happy,
Gustl
--
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von
uns.
Mitglied-Team AMIGA
ICQ: 22211253-Gustli
********
The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the
gentle slope,
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without
milestones,
without signposts.
C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"
********
Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e
liegen,
da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewšhnlichen Welt
nicht
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.
********
Those who dance are considered insane by those who
can't
hear the music.
George Carlin
********
The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of
kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth
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