Sure. Fossil fuels are carbon neutral. But only until they're combusted. It's the human demand and the geologic time required to resequester the emissons that wipes out their neutrality.
Large difference between millions of years for sequestration and one year for biofuels. Todd Swearingen ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Mullan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 5:56 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Back to grid via WVO genset > I'll plead ignorance right off the bat. > > But is fossil fuel truely carbon negative? The plants and animals they are > derived from were living and breathing albeit a few million years ago. It's > just been held in escrow for a while :) It's just the human virus that's > releasing it all in a short 100 years. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Appal Energy > Sent: October 9, 2004 12:29 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to grid via WVO genset > > > Start Here: > > Vegetable oil has the potential to be 100% carbon neutral and is probably > already ~90% carbon neutral despite fossil fuels used in its production, > refining and transportation. > > Fossil fuel is 100% carbon negative right out of the chute and if you > include mining, refining and transportation the negative numbers escalate > well beyond that. > > No or almost no SOx, no heavy metals and a few dozen other benefits in > comparison. If you want to labor on the math go ahead. But you're banging > your head against the wall if you think that you'll come up with any > disbenefit that comes anywhere close to the disbenefits of fossil fuels. > > Todd Swearingen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Del Bueno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to grid via WVO genset > > > > I never intended the use of biodiesel. > > The idea is for reclaimed waste vegetable oils. > > > > I am curious on if anyone has given thought to the emissions per kWh of > > such a setup versus coal fired plant (...who in our area are successful in > > avoiding EPA New Source Review regulations, and continue to spew). > > > > Also considering the addition of a pre-combustion fuel catalyst, and > > additional after treament (because of dedicated veg use). > > > > > > At 01:28 PM 10/8/2004, you wrote: > > >Lyle, > > > > > > > Is it not true that the grid is so much more efficient than Rob's > > > > generator that making electricity from biodiesel is a waste of > > > > perfectly good fuel? > > > > > >I don't know about that. Do you think that an approximate 65% loss in > energy > > >from fuel source to your duplex outlet is very efficient? > > > > > >That's the loss achieved by the grid that provides electrical service to > > >you. > > > > > >You may be right about a fairly needless waste of biodiesel, however. > > >Especially when gensets operate under constant load and for the most part > > >are capable of running on WVO/SVO. The inclusion of more energy inputs by > > >making biodiesel might be unnecessary in many instances. > > > > > >Todd Swearingen > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Lyle Estill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:34 PM > > >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to grid via WVO genset > > > > > > > > > > Gang, > > > > > > > > I've enjoyed this thread for awhile now, and have finally found the > > > > courage to post. > > > > > > > > Is it not true that the grid is so much more efficient than Rob's > > > > generator that making electricity from biodiesel is a waste of > > > > perfectly good fuel? > > > > > > > > From a conservation standpoint (strictly BTUs--forget geopolitical > > > > arguments for a moment), he is better off running his studio on grid. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 7, 2004, at 11:23 PM, Appal Energy wrote: > > > > > > > > > Kirk, > > > > > > > > > > Did that fellow say that "every China diesel owner achieved in > excess > > > > > of > > > > > 10,000 hours?" Or was he only pointing to the exceptions? It would > > > > > also be a > > > > > rather rare truck that got one million miles before it had to have > the > > > > > top > > > > > end and rings done. 300-500,000 is a more real breaking point there. > > > > > You're > > > > > also speaking of relatively small horsepower and not a great deal of > > > > > engine > > > > > mass. Don't think you can compare the odd duck of a truck to the > whole > > > > > roost. > > > > > > > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Kirk McLoren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:26 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Back to grid via WVO genset > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> That fellow "Skip" who wrote "More Power to You" said he knew China > > > > >> diesel > > > > > owners that had in excess of 10,000 hours without a rebuild. We know > > > > > trucks > > > > > go 1000000 miles and at an avg of 50mph that is 20.000 hours > > > > >> > > > > >> Kirk > > > > >> > > > > >> Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >> Robert, > > > > >> > > > > >>> What is the flaw I am missing? > > > > >> > > > > >> You don't use all 2,000 kWh in 2-3 hour blocks. To make your idea > work > > > > >> without a storage system you would have to conduct all your energy > > > > > consuming > > > > >> activities within that narrow time window. You'd probably be best > > > > >> served > > > > > by > > > > >> installing a battery bank and converter and cycle your gennie as > > > > >> required. > > > > >> > > > > >> You've also got to "depreciate" your gennie. Check the > manufacturer's > > > > >> estimated life cycle. Usually they're only 2-3 thousand hours > before a > > > > >> rebuild is necessary, meaning that you'll be buying a new gennie or > > > > >> paying > > > > >> the rebuild costs every second or third year. > > > > >> > > > > >> Todd Swearingen > > > > >> > > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > > > >> From: "Robert Del Bueno" > > > > >> To: > > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 10:11 PM > > > > >> Subject: [Biofuel] Back to grid via WVO genset > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>> So looking at my power bill for my recording studio business, we > use > > > > >>> on > > > > >>> average about 2000kWH per month. > > > > >>> If I were to run a 30kW diesel genset on SVO for 2.5 hours a day, > 30 > > > > > days > > > > >> a > > > > >>> month... > > > > >>> > > > > >>> 75Hx30kW=2250kWH ... > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I know that net-metering in Georgia does not pay retail rates for > > > > > intertie > > > > >>> power, but hell, even if I had to run for 3-4 hours a day, seems > > > > >>> like I > > > > >>> could do well. > > > > >>> Of course using a water cooled genset, I would also use the hot > water > > > > > for > > > > >>> heating applications. > > > > >>> I have a steady supply of good SVO. > > > > >>> And 30kw diesel genset available very affordable. > > > > >>> I know the intertie/net metering equipment costs a fair amount, > but > > > > >>> will > > > > >> be > > > > >>> applicable for future solar pv use as well. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> What is the flaw I am missing? > > > > >>> -Rob > > > > >>> > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>> Biofuel mailing list > > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >>> http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > >>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > > > > >>> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Biofuel mailing list > > > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >> http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > > > >> > > > > >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > >> > > > > >> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > > > > >> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> --------------------------------- > > > > >> Do you Yahoo!? > > > > >> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Biofuel mailing list > > > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >> http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > > > >> > > > > >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > >> > > > > >> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > > > > >> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Biofuel mailing list > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > > > > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > > > > > > Lyle Estill > > > > V.P. Stuff > > > > Piedmont Biofuels > > > > www.biofuels.coop > > > > 919-545-2551 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Biofuel mailing list > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > > > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Biofuel mailing list > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > >Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > > >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuel mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
