But Kim is right. Unless you add some such proviso to your exclusion, your blanket condemnation could indeed harm the good guys. For one thing, though you might be well aware of the difference, you shouldn't presume that others will be. You could well be persuading them to condemn the wrong people, possibly in other spheres too, not just biodiesel. Factory farms are an anachronism, they don't have a future; farmers like Kim are the future, and blanket condemnations now could warp that future for them and for us all.

My friend, there is no large enough source of lard or tallow feedstock from a family farm. I appreciate your concern about blanket condemnations, but once again, would you say "don't condemn all slaveholders; many are small plantations who treat their slaves decently?"

It's a poor comparison, as what you say below of your own practices demonstrates.

Best wishes

Keith


I am not a vegetarian, because I AM a family farmer. I've been involved in animal husbandry and subsistence farming for many years; I am not an urbanite discussing this from an armchair in my drawing room. If my milk cow has a boy calf, there is no other future for him than to be eaten. If one of our laying chickens dies, or we have too many roosters, they must be eaten. If we were not willing to eat this occasional meat, we could not raise milk or eggs. So I am not naive about necessary and natural relationships.

Factory farming, whether owned and operated by a family or a large corporation, is a despicable abuse of power by our species, just like slavery, and is unnatural and extremely unhealthy for everyone in all directions.

No one is going to be able to produce biodiesel from collecting a gallon of lard from one little farm and two gallons from another every few weeks or months. That's not what my e-mail was about. Sometimes blanket condemnations are actually appropriate, as in the case of slavery or genocide. What we do with animals every day and every night in factory farms is both slavery and genocide. Sorry, I cannot hedge on that. To me, that's false tolerance and is a problem of our age.

Bo

From: Kim & Garth Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 11:28:31 -0600

Greetings,

But what if your lard or tallow came from the small family farms trying to survive? Any blanket statement is against improving the farming picture. Many people do raise animals in a humane, environmentally friendly manner. And we have a hard time staying alive with the competition from the factory farms. Cutting off a source of income, to us, without investigating who is doing what is harmful and promotes the factory farms. Trace your sources and be picky about whom you support, yes. Blanket condemnation is what is killing the small farmer who is doing it right.

Bright Blessings,
Kim

At 10:36 AM 3/7/2005, you wrote:
To answer your question, Keith, my organization, Carolina Biodiesel Inc (www.carolinabiodiesel.org) has already discussed and made official policy that we would not morally be able to use animal waste as a feedstock no matter how cheap it was or who else was doing it. We decided we did not want to benefit from the back door of factory farming, even if it meant we could no longer compete with other producers. wrong is wrong.

Sounds like you and I see the connection between factory farming and the ecological movement in much the same way. Glad it's being said somewhere.

Bo

From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 01:24:45 +0900

Hello Bo

Hi Keith,

I apologize for hyperbole in using terms like "the least of the problems," but to be more accurate, my point is still that I have met biofuels folks who have made enthusiastic friendships with factory farmers as though waste and fuel were the only issues, not the horrific treatment of living beings.

Did you read my whole reply to you? Including the last paragraph?

One reason that I posted this here is that we keep having these band-aid allegedly new-tech industrial "solutions" offered (eg with turkey wastes) that will turn the wastes into energy, hey, "solving" the whole problem so we can all ride off into the sunset and everyone lives happily ever after (except the turkeys). Then some list member enthuses over its being wondrously environmental, and some of them have been completely baffled when I've said there's more to it than that. You see the problem.

There's more to it than "the horrific treatment of living beings" too - or at least the living beings being factory farmed aren't necessarily the only ones being horrifically treated.

It hurts to see that, much like it would if we were involved in this field during the ninetheenth century and formed affectionate relationships with slaveholders who were a good source of cottonseed oil. The people may indeed be nice individuals, but they are involved in a significant social evil that we must not turn a blind eye to.

Indeed not, but it's hardly the only significant social evil involved in fuels and biofuels issues, or in food and fuel issues.

That was all I was trying to get across. I love and respect animals for the same exact reasons I want to use and support biofuels. How can the two be separated?

Would you use biodiesel or WVO containing lard or tallow or chickenfat?

Actually I don't see abusing animals as much different to abusing anything else, whether it's plants and trees, soil, air, water, other humans, or any other part of the biosphere - hubris in general, and indeed very much to do with supporting biofuels.

Best wishes

Keith


Bo

From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 14:51:56 +0900

Hello Bo

Please friends, let's realize the problem with factory farms is factory farming -- not the discharge of wastes.

Nope - both are problems, and they're not the only ones. Of course without the factory farms the waste problem wouldn't exist, but the waste problem is nonetheless a useful approach, for raising awareness and for bringing pressure to bear.

There is no stretch of the imagination that can condone the torture, cruelty and insanity of raising "food" in that way.

I fully agree.

Ever been inside one?

Yup.

Please don't even respond to this e-mail unless you have, or at least have seen truthful film footage of how animals are raised and treated. I'd like to think that anyone interested in biofuels would be absolutely opposed to factory farming.

Absolutely - and if not why not.

The wastes are the least of the problems, in my view.

The wastes are a severe problem in their own right. It's all a problem. There's nothing good about any aspect of it.

You will, I believe, find previous posts on many or most of the other problems associated with factory farming in the list archives. That includes for instance how the feed is produced, a whole other nightmare, the effects of which are global, with some horrendous results.

One reason that I posted this here is that we keep having these band-aid allegedly new-tech industrial "solutions" offered (eg with turkey wastes) that will turn the wastes into energy, hey, "solving" the whole problem so we can all ride off into the sunset and everyone lives happily ever after (except the turkeys). Then some list member enthuses over its being wondrously environmental, and some of them have been completely baffled when I've said there's more to it than that. You see the problem.

Best wishes

Keith


Bo Lozoff

From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 05:24:15 +0900

http://www.alternet.org/story/21391

Cleaning Up Factory Farms

<snip>

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