Now that Kieth has made it clear why he has a problem with some of Dick's historical remarks, can we move on please? The issue of standards as quality control and Standards as government regulation are both important to me. Once a Standard is recommended in Australia it will quickly become law. Without meaning to give offence, I believe that Australian biodieselers, on their own, lack the experience to advise the regulator on the proposed standard. What I want to know is how the practical quality control refered to (albeit in other words)by Dick transfers into the technical language of a formal Standard and vise versa. Quality control needs to be simple, inexpensive and on-site. If my on-site quality control is appropriate then I would expect that the fuel that I produce will pass any test by a regulator. That requires that the Standard is practical and designed only to protect the consumer-not protect the petro-industry or the commercial intrests of a laboratory. To that end, again, I ask for comment from all list members that I can better judge the intention of the proposals put forward for the Australian Standard. If an unrealistic Australian Standard should be adopted, biodiesel will join the black market fuel currently in use by many poorer Australians, actually it will improve the properties of the heating fuel and solvents currently in use. The problem though is that biodiesel will get a bad name if it is involved in a warranty dispute by that association. Your assistance would be appreciated. REgards from Harry.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >if the list moderator cannot tolerate views different from his, his > >comments will be biased. > > I rejoice in views other than mine, otherwise I don't learn and the > world is bleak. Regarding biased comments, there is no need for > opinions in this matter, the evidence is documentary, it's readily > available in the archives, and can be checked. > > As for tolerance, I don't think I need to defend myself on that > count. However, the biofuels movement is still very young, fragile > and vulnerable, with impressionable newcomers aplenty on one hand and > powerful enemies on the other, and content with a potentially harmful > impact sometimes has to be countered. > > On another list, myself and others have been doing battle with an > arch-troll, clever and unscrupulous, who sows disinformation on > nuclear power being clean, safe, cheap, and free of GG emissions. > Countering such "views" is not intolerance, it's downright necessary. > (It's an example, I'm not comparing the two cases in any other way.) > > >keith's slurs as regards my personal integrity are proof of such a > >biased attitude. > > It's demonstrated in your posts. If you can't/won't see it, that's > your problem. You have yourself made several slurs in this thread, > which you've failed to substantiate, though asked to do so. Slurs and > sneers. > > >i hold that a moderator should remain in the background, and not > >seek the limelight, which is unfortunately not the case with this > >list. > > I don't seek the limelight, I never have. The popularity of our > website does tend to put me at the centre of things in some ways, but > that is not something I relish for its own sake. I but seldom have to > act as moderator on our lists. The vast majority of members require > no moderation from me, nor anyone else. There are a tiny number of > exceptions, as in all societies. People who try to lay down the law > might get short shrift, for instance. I recently laid down some law > at the Biofuels list. "Rules," I said. "Nothing is off-topic." > Whatever, if you'd like to do better, it's a simple matter to start > your own list. > > >i was invited to join this list. i will now proceed to invite myself out. > > You were not invited to join this list. You may have been invited to > join BFIC, but this is not BFIC. But please do as you wish. > > >all the best to all list members, as well as the list 'owner'. > > > >in mead, veritas. dick. > > I think not. > > Keith Addison > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Keith Addison > >To: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 10:48 AM > >Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] wish i had more time... > > > > >Hi Keith > > > > > >In fairness (or due to my fuzzy memory) I have to ask, did Dick actually say > > >this (my inverted commas)? > > > > > ><<Such ideas, if you can call them that, > > >as that there's "no need for standards">> > > > > > >I thought he just didn't like the ones around now, and wanted to make up his > > >own. > > > > > >Steve > > > >Hi Steve > > > >In a sense, yes, but his standards are really just rule-of-thumb > >checks, not anything a car manufacturer could work with, for > >instance. But he says that type of standard is just "posturing" and > >counter-productive. > > > >"so i propose we stop posturing regarding standards, some of which, > >like cetane, cannot be readily measured without a lab ic engine. > > > >"instead, let's concentrate on simple means of giving our biofuels a > >practical clean bill of health, using language that the layman can > >understand." > > > >Essentially stuff of use to backyarders, and most useful too, as are > >backyarders. (The guy keeps referring me to the checks that I > >provided!!) But it's a different ballgame, eh? It's quite obvious > >that it has to be done both ways, from both angles - from all angles. > >And so on and on. > > > >I think Paddy hit the button in the first place. What it probably > >boils down to is that WVO is junk because Dick's processor can't > >handle it, and that standards are junk because Dick's processor > >doesn't do washing and even with virgin oil the product probably > >won't meet the standards, any of them. For own-use, fine - but you > >might do better with a good old 55-gallon drum, at a fraction of the > >cost, and produce a better product from a much wider range of > >feedstock. > > > >For this we should ignore the possibility that VW could withdraw its > >biodiesel guarantees in Europe, and possibly elsewhere? > > > >I'm sure you're going the right way. It is possible for small-scale > >operators to produce high-quality biod, there's plenty of evidence of > >that, from a wide variety of available feedstocks, virgin or used, > >and to be sure of meeting all standards requirements through shared > >testing facilities, as you propose. It will take some work, but it > >can be done, I'm sure it will done - it has to be done, and this kind > >of specious claptrap doesn't help. Any more of it and I'll put master > >Dick under moderation, or worse, as I really haven't got time to vet > >people's messages, and it shouldn't be necessary. > > > >Regards > > > >Keith Addison > > > > > > > >Biofuels at Journey to Forever > ><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org > >/biofuel.html > >Biofuel at WebConX > ><http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm>http://www.webconx.c > >om/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>biofuels-biz-unsubsc > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > >Biofuels at Journey to Forever > ><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org > >/biofuel.html > >Biofuel at WebConX > ><http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm>http://www.webconx.c > >om/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... 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