Dear Mikes, I'm on to you with wonderful Schumacher, what a delight. With your neighbours, what IS their problem. This would clearly be an unpleasant experience, first thing in the morning, when you step out to smeeeellll the flowers. Now, me, my rainbarrels are municipally supplied!!! The neighbourhood kids think it's so fun to come over and get wet! I don't really know how to be sunny about your neighbourly disparity, but humm, there must be some common ground somewhere. What do THEY like to do? Play crib? Further, I feel your presidential aspirations are entirely appropriate. Jesse On May 4, 2006, at 2:52 PM, Mike Weaver wrote:
> There are too many Mikes around here. > > I'm familiar with Schumacher though it's been years since I read it. > I'm working on a modified square foot gardening plan now. > > Other Mike: No. The immediate neighbors are MAD MAD MAD. They do > not like: > 1. 12 year old p/u truck > 2. Trarped and stacked wood - quote "it's ugly" They also think > freshly > cut Oak stinks. > 3. They don't like the wood smoke > 4. They don't like my BD buddies coming by in 23 year old diesels > 5. My garden is ugly "You've ruined my view". > 6. My lawn is not perfect - I refuse to put weedkiller on it. > 7. I build stuff and make noise. > 8. I have rain barrels > 9. I move oil in big barrels > > But, there is a lot of interest in the groups close to my > neighborhood - > the local Democrats, parents at my kid's school, people who ask about > the stickers on my VW, other wood heat nuts, and friends. I'm working > on a BD coop. for my area. > > > > > Keith Addison wrote: > >> Hello Mike >> >> I think you need to learn something about the Appropriate Technology >> approach, essentially technology as if people mattered, the necessary >> adjunct to Schumacher's "Small is beautiful - economics as if people >> mattered". >> >> An introduction: >> http://journeytoforever.org/at.html >> Appropriate technology >> >> Generally seen as something for poor countries, but at least as >> appropriate in rich countries. >> >> Best >> >> Keith >> >> >> >> >>> Mike...during your neigborhood conversion from "neighborhood >>> crank to having >>> a steady stream of visitors and questions about BD," are the >>> neighbors >>> changing? If so, how? One of my concerns in my post in response >>> to Keith >>> is that not everyone will have the ability/interest to set up >>> their own BD >>> plant, as well as have access to feedstock. It seems to me, >>> since you are >>> already set up with some kind of access to feedstock, you could >>> be the new >>> neighborhood "gas pump." Don't you think??? Of course, once >>> you, or >>> someone, becomes this person, the community necessarily >>> transforms your >>> individual production into the need for an "industrial-scale >>> process." In >>> fact, the existence of a community that demands the lifestyle >>> provided by BD >>> or any fuel to run our machinery that gives us this lifestyle must >>> necessarily adopt "industrial-scale" processes. Don't you think?? >>> Presently, I do. Consequently, I'm especially interested in >>> learning about >>> any size community that has developed/is developing "industrial- >>> scale >>> processes (that) fit rational biofuels production," to use >>> Keith's terms. >>> Another Mike >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 8:27 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Iogen - Post to List >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> FWIW - I have not bought ANY petro products for almost a year >>>> now except >>>> for diesel on one long trip and the least amount of NG as >>>> possible for >>>> cooking and showers. I hope to go to BD heating for water, or >>>> get my BD >>>> generator running and use electric. I heat with wood. >>>> >>>> I went from being the neighborhood crank to having a steady >>>> stream of >>>> visitors and questions about BD >>>> >>>> M&K DuPree wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi Keith...thanks so much for the links to info on Iogen and >>>>> cellulosic >>>>> ethanol generally. This whole area is very new to me. Somehow >>>>> I have >>>>> been >>>>> blind for most of my 54 years to the extent that my lifestyle >>>>> and general >>>>> "world view" have been dependent upon and propped up by my >>>>> dependence upon >>>>> oil as an energy source. All of sudden I am seeing how out of >>>>> my control >>>>> my >>>>> life really is. And to tell you and everyone the truth, I'm >>>>> damned >>>>> frightened, and angry, and depressed, and then...is that my .38 >>>>> over >>>>> there??? Somehow I have been able to keep the madness of this >>>>> world at >>>>> bay, >>>>> but no more, all because of rising oil prices and my >>>>> subsequently felt >>>>> urgency to research and find alternative energy sources. This >>>>> research >>>>> has >>>>> led me into the politics of the whole energy arena and >>>>> ultimately a world >>>>> view that, when I include not just me and mine, but the whole >>>>> freakin 6.5 >>>>> billion of us (and growing exponentially), has me pretty much >>>>> freaked. >>>>> Just >>>>> another suburban kid gone over the edge (or perhaps, more >>>>> accurately, come >>>>> back from having been over the edge into dreamland into the >>>>> reality of >>>>> limited resources and the need for a stripped down lifestyle >>>>> that takes >>>>> into >>>>> account the full extent of my actions). This side of the edge, >>>>> however, >>>>> isn't something I can easily make my own, because, it appears >>>>> to me, if I >>>>> am >>>>> going to be able to truly regain what little sense of my self I >>>>> might >>>>> truly >>>>> possess, I must be willing to put my tent on my back and just >>>>> simply begin >>>>> to wander and then keep wandering until I fall over dead (can't >>>>> stop by >>>>> the >>>>> local Salvation Army for refreshment...that would only be >>>>> dipping my toe >>>>> back over the edge into dreamland again). Is this clear...or >>>>> am I coming >>>>> off as the probable lunatic I might really be??? >>>>> Anyway, so I am curious about your own comments. I'm still >>>>> reading >>>>> through all the articles connected to the links you have >>>>> shared, so maybe >>>>> my >>>>> questions will be answered along the way. Nonetheless, I want >>>>> to ask them >>>>> here: 1) in regards to "how well industrial-scale processes fit >>>>> rational >>>>> biofuels production," would you please explain in more detail? >>>>> Also, >>>>> perhaps >>>>> lead me to a model industrial-scale process that DOES fit rational >>>>> biofuels >>>>> production? My immediate response to this has to do with a >>>>> main point I >>>>> have observed in my own interest in making biofuel: that this >>>>> is not >>>>> something me and all of my neighbors can do individually for >>>>> various >>>>> reasons, but especially because of limited feedstock and >>>>> difficulty of >>>>> distribution. Democracy does not extend to the realm of limited >>>>> resources. >>>>> I believe packaging of product for individuals has promoted this >>>>> appearance. >>>>> Consequently, it appears to me (and I could still be very blind >>>>> on this >>>>> point), we need some level of industrial-scale processes; and >>>>> 2) will you >>>>> please explain further how "gobbling up crop wastes" is done >>>>> "at the >>>>> expense >>>>> of soil fertility maintenance?" Please understand, I am in NO >>>>> WAY trying >>>>> to >>>>> be argumentative. I really am profoundly concerned about our >>>>> world >>>>> situation today and how I can be on the helpful side of it all >>>>> (knapsack >>>>> and >>>>> all???). I don't have that much time left on the planet, and >>>>> I'd like to >>>>> go >>>>> down swinging. Thanks. Mike >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 1:17 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Iogen - Post to List >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi...I'd like to hear the list's opinion about the process >>>>>>> developed >>>>>>> by Iogen to produce "cellulosic ethanol." Goldman Sachs >>>>>>> announced >>>>>>> yesterday (May 1) an investment of $30million Canadian in the >>>>>>> company. Royal Dutch/Shell, Petro-Canada, and the Canadian >>>>>>> Gov't >>>>>>> have also all partnered with or are supporting Iogen. >>>>>>> The first article below, by Sam Jaffe, an editor with The >>>>>>> Scientist magazine, discusses cellulosic ethanol as well as a >>>>>>> fuel >>>>>>> cell developed by Lanny Scmidt. The second link is to the Iogen >>>>>>> website itself. Thanks. Mike >>>>>>> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0407.jaffe.html >>>>>>> http://www.iogen.ca/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Here's some previous discussion: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://snipurl.com/pxs2 >>>>>> biofuel >>>>>> Search results for 'iogen' >>>>>> 94 matches >>>>>> >>>>>> Ethanol from cellulose >>>>>> http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#cellulose >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe it'll get off the ground now, it's been around for years >>>>>> and >>>>>> nothing happens. Like all the other ethanol-from-cellulose >>>>>> projects. >>>>>> >>>>>> What bothers me about it, other than how well industrial-scale >>>>>> processes fit rational biofuels production anyway, is that >>>>>> cellulose >>>>>> is widely regarded as "waste", but the soil that produced it >>>>>> might >>>>>> not think so. There's often plenty of cellulose about that isn't >>>>>> utilised and could/should be harvested, but if Iogen et al start >>>>>> gobbling up crop wastes at the expense of soil fertility >>>>>> maintenance >>>>>> then clean, green and sustainable biofuels won't be the result. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best >>>>>> >>>>>> Keith >>>>>> >>>>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuel mailing list >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ >> biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> messages): >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ > biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
