We're a small bunch now mostly due to my time-constraints - I wanted to see if it is possible to live without petro. It is. But, I have a small house and am handy, and have friends that help. I would really like to get off the grid a la Zeke but haven't finished the work - I'm close.
I think I could make 300 - 400 gallons a week and not really bother anyone. I don't now because I don't drive much and my car gets 50 mpg. I'm stuck in suburbia for 9 more years then I'm moving out to somewhere with land. I live in a small house in a sea of mansions and SUV's - but not by choice. M&K DuPree wrote: >Mike...during your neigborhood conversion from "neighborhood crank to having >a steady stream of visitors and questions about BD," are the neighbors >changing? If so, how? One of my concerns in my post in response to Keith >is that not everyone will have the ability/interest to set up their own BD >plant, as well as have access to feedstock. It seems to me, since you are >already set up with some kind of access to feedstock, you could be the new >neighborhood "gas pump." Don't you think??? Of course, once you, or >someone, becomes this person, the community necessarily transforms your >individual production into the need for an "industrial-scale process." In >fact, the existence of a community that demands the lifestyle provided by BD >or any fuel to run our machinery that gives us this lifestyle must >necessarily adopt "industrial-scale" processes. Don't you think?? >Presently, I do. Consequently, I'm especially interested in learning about >any size community that has developed/is developing "industrial-scale >processes (that) fit rational biofuels production," to use Keith's terms. >Another Mike > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 8:27 AM >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Iogen - Post to List > > > > >>FWIW - I have not bought ANY petro products for almost a year now except >>for diesel on one long trip and the least amount of NG as possible for >>cooking and showers. I hope to go to BD heating for water, or get my BD >>generator running and use electric. I heat with wood. >> >>I went from being the neighborhood crank to having a steady stream of >>visitors and questions about BD >> >>M&K DuPree wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi Keith...thanks so much for the links to info on Iogen and cellulosic >>>ethanol generally. This whole area is very new to me. Somehow I have >>>been >>>blind for most of my 54 years to the extent that my lifestyle and general >>>"world view" have been dependent upon and propped up by my dependence upon >>>oil as an energy source. All of sudden I am seeing how out of my control >>>my >>>life really is. And to tell you and everyone the truth, I'm damned >>>frightened, and angry, and depressed, and then...is that my .38 over >>>there??? Somehow I have been able to keep the madness of this world at >>>bay, >>>but no more, all because of rising oil prices and my subsequently felt >>>urgency to research and find alternative energy sources. This research >>>has >>>led me into the politics of the whole energy arena and ultimately a world >>>view that, when I include not just me and mine, but the whole freakin 6.5 >>>billion of us (and growing exponentially), has me pretty much freaked. >>>Just >>>another suburban kid gone over the edge (or perhaps, more accurately, come >>>back from having been over the edge into dreamland into the reality of >>>limited resources and the need for a stripped down lifestyle that takes >>>into >>>account the full extent of my actions). This side of the edge, however, >>>isn't something I can easily make my own, because, it appears to me, if I >>>am >>>going to be able to truly regain what little sense of my self I might >>>truly >>>possess, I must be willing to put my tent on my back and just simply begin >>>to wander and then keep wandering until I fall over dead (can't stop by >>>the >>>local Salvation Army for refreshment...that would only be dipping my toe >>>back over the edge into dreamland again). Is this clear...or am I coming >>>off as the probable lunatic I might really be??? >>> Anyway, so I am curious about your own comments. I'm still reading >>>through all the articles connected to the links you have shared, so maybe >>>my >>>questions will be answered along the way. Nonetheless, I want to ask them >>>here: 1) in regards to "how well industrial-scale processes fit rational >>>biofuels production," would you please explain in more detail? Also, >>>perhaps >>>lead me to a model industrial-scale process that DOES fit rational >>>biofuels >>>production? My immediate response to this has to do with a main point I >>>have observed in my own interest in making biofuel: that this is not >>>something me and all of my neighbors can do individually for various >>>reasons, but especially because of limited feedstock and difficulty of >>>distribution. Democracy does not extend to the realm of limited >>>resources. >>>I believe packaging of product for individuals has promoted this >>>appearance. >>>Consequently, it appears to me (and I could still be very blind on this >>>point), we need some level of industrial-scale processes; and 2) will you >>>please explain further how "gobbling up crop wastes" is done "at the >>>expense >>>of soil fertility maintenance?" Please understand, I am in NO WAY trying >>>to >>>be argumentative. I really am profoundly concerned about our world >>>situation today and how I can be on the helpful side of it all (knapsack >>>and >>>all???). I don't have that much time left on the planet, and I'd like to >>>go >>>down swinging. Thanks. Mike >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>>Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 1:17 PM >>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Iogen - Post to List >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hi Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi...I'd like to hear the list's opinion about the process developed >>>>>by Iogen to produce "cellulosic ethanol." Goldman Sachs announced >>>>>yesterday (May 1) an investment of $30million Canadian in the >>>>>company. Royal Dutch/Shell, Petro-Canada, and the Canadian Gov't >>>>>have also all partnered with or are supporting Iogen. >>>>> The first article below, by Sam Jaffe, an editor with The >>>>>Scientist magazine, discusses cellulosic ethanol as well as a fuel >>>>>cell developed by Lanny Scmidt. The second link is to the Iogen >>>>>website itself. Thanks. Mike >>>>>http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0407.jaffe.html >>>>>http://www.iogen.ca/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Here's some previous discussion: >>>> >>>>http://snipurl.com/pxs2 >>>>biofuel >>>>Search results for 'iogen' >>>>94 matches >>>> >>>>Ethanol from cellulose >>>>http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html#cellulose >>>> >>>>Maybe it'll get off the ground now, it's been around for years and >>>>nothing happens. Like all the other ethanol-from-cellulose projects. >>>> >>>>What bothers me about it, other than how well industrial-scale >>>>processes fit rational biofuels production anyway, is that cellulose >>>>is widely regarded as "waste", but the soil that produced it might >>>>not think so. There's often plenty of cellulose about that isn't >>>>utilised and could/should be harvested, but if Iogen et al start >>>>gobbling up crop wastes at the expense of soil fertility maintenance >>>>then clean, green and sustainable biofuels won't be the result. >>>> >>>>Best >>>> >>>>Keith >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>>> >>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>> >>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>>messages): >>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Biofuel mailing list >>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>> >>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>> >>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>messages): >>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuel mailing list >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>messages): >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
