Hi Bob;
I said it before and I'll say it again. Who's gonna spend the money to
scientifically prove something they cannot control, works? Just for
this reason there isn't much to go on but testimony. However the
corollary, someone with a lot of money, and who stands to lose a lot
would see it as a good investment to publish information which makes
herbs look bad, now that is a good possibility, vis big oil's spending
on anti-global warming research and disinformation campaign. However
much you may be able to shoot me down on this, I'll go ahead and say
it; there is something sorta scientific we can say in this case. We
rely on statistical information so heavily, sure a handful of bought
testimonials are worthless but what about generations worth? What about
a thousand years worth? It's not a double blind study but obviously
something is up and people are on to it. If something is crap and is
hyped up with bought and paid for testimonials, it's not gonna stand
the test of time is it? Another example? Nobody has a scientific
explanation for acupuncture but they do major operations without
anaesthetic and recoveries are better without poisoning the body with
anaesthetic. It's been known to work for a long time but nobody can
explain it. Perhaps our science isn't good enough yet. Should we
abandon accupuncture on this principle then?
Joe
bob allen wrote:
Guys, can't we get past testimonies for evidence?
Terry Dyck wrote:
Hi Bob,
Many herbs have been used in parts of Europe, Asia, South America and by
Northern American Natives for thousands of years.
so?
Ayurvedic doctors of
India have studied herbs for centuries
and they drink their urine, so what?
and so have Chinese herbal
practicianers.
they also use tiger penises and bears gall bladders, so what?
Aspirin can cause problems with the stomach lining.
but not as bad a willow bark salicin
It can
also cause problems with joints if used over a long period of time. I have
never heard of anyone having side effects from taking White Willow Bark.
uh, testimonial again. sorry
Terry Dyck
From: bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:56:12 -0500
Howdy Terry. First, how do you know that an herb has a thousand years
of testimonies? because someone said so. That itself is a testimonial.
This is not to say that no herb has medicinal value- in fact most drugs
have been "discovered" from an examination of traditional medicine. You
can get a degree in Pharmacognosy for example.
http://www.phcog.org/
Just one example, Aspirin is a chemical modification of salicylic acid,
obtained from willow bark and known to be efficacious by the american
indians. Aspirin is an improvement however, as it is less corrosive to
the lining of the stomach.
Other herbs, which have a long history of traditional use, haven't
survived scientific scrutiny.
glucosamine and shark cartilage, saw palmetto, and st. john's wort
are three that come to mind which are sold but for which there is no, or
conflicting, or little evidence for efficacy, at least when measured via
placebo controlled studies.
of course there is no end of nostrums hawked everyday via testimonial
evidence, some of which have been shown to be dangerous such as ma huang
(ephedra) or laetrile, a cyanide containing product from apricot pits.
you just can't make an informed decision if you don't have the
information.
Terry Dyck wrote:
Hi Bob,
Good point. On the other hand is there not a difference between a short
term study and a study done on herbs that has a thousand years of
testimonies?
Terry Dyck
From: bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] testimonials as proof
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:02:42 -0500
you be the judge as to the value of testimonial evidence:
"NBC's Dateline has broadcast the results of an undercover
investigation
in which an infomercial producer was asked to create an infomercial for
an alleged skin moisturizer called "Moisturol." Even though the
producer
was told that there was no scientific evidence that the product worked,
he agreed to create an infomercial complete with a medical endorser and
testimonials from allegedly satisfied users. After the infomercial was
completed, the investigators confronted the participants, most of whom
(including the doctor) had not even tried the product. Six of the seven
"satisfied customers" were actresses who received $50. Margaret Olsen,
M.D., a dermatologist who practices in Los Angeles, received $5,000 for
her endorsement. The participants did not know that the product was a
fake that had been made from Nestle's Quick (a powdered chocolate drink
mix). The text and video of the investigation are posted on NBC's Web
site. [From the inside out: If you had a questionable product, how hard
would it be to find someone to make an infomercial and sell your
product
to millions? Dateline decided to find out. Dateline, Sept 15, 2006]
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14856571/ "
--
Bob Allen
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