Jan, Ken, I have pushed the procedure to double the acid amount in the first phase, dewatered and went to the second phase (base base) in small batches without problem. I suggest testing in small amounts and working up a procedure that fits the product. This will take some time to do but when you get "it" you can get repeatbility thereafter. I did use Venturi acid introduction so that perhaps makes a big difference as well.
Jim >From: "Jan Warnqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate >Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:48:10 +0100 > >If you have that much tri-glycerides you may most likely do one acid >esterification followed by one base trans-esterification. Just check the >FFA >value after the first step after removal of the (acidic) water phase. If >the >FFA value is < 5%, go as described above, in any other case as described >before. >With best regards >AGERATEC AB >Jan Warnqvist >----- Original Message ----- >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:02 AM >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate > > > > Thanks again Jan. > > > > Its 71.8% FFA. But doing acid esterification twice? Do you finish with >a > > base transesterification after the two acid esterification? > > Please pardon my ignorance. Can you expound a bit. First time to hear > > about acid esterification twice. Appreciate very much your help on the > > matter. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Ken > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jan Warnqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 4:46 PM > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate > > > > > >> No, if you are working with 100% free fatty acids, you will have to do > >> the > >> ACID esterification twice with water content evapoation inbetween > >> > >> With best regards > >> AGERATEC AB > >> Jan Warnqvist. > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:22 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate > >> > >> > >> > Thanks Jan, > >> > > >> > So you are saying that Aleks Kac's two stage process is the way to go > >> > on > >> > this one? Start with the acid-based stage and finish with the > > base-based > >> > stage. That's doing it twice right? > >> > > >> > Am doing small batches on the single stage base process (about 100 > > liters > >> > veg. oil). Will blending this with new veg. oil make a difference? > >> > > >> > Been reading the Foolproof Method over and over again to familiarize > >> > myself. > >> > Looks like it. > >> > > >> > Much thanks again. > >> > > >> > Ken > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Jan Warnqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:35 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate > >> > > >> > > >> >> Hello Ken, > >> >> fatty acids are possible to esterify with an acid catalyst. The >formed > >> > water > >> >> has to be drawn off, so it is always nice to start with a low water > >> > content. > >> >> Performed correctly, the esterification will produce 90-95% esters. > >> > Usually > >> >> these kinds of reactions are performed twice for a good conversion > > grade. > >> >> > >> >> With best regards > >> >> AGERATEC AB > >> >> Jan Warnqvist > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> >> To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:18 AM > >> >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Hi everyone, > >> >> > > >> >> > I sent this out a few days ago. I was told by someone in the oil > > mill > >> >> > that > >> >> > crude fatty acid distillate is just a fancy name for their seconds > >> >> > or > >> >> > reject > >> >> > oils, which soap factories take from them and make into soap. > >> >> > Anyone > >> > has > >> >> > any experience with this kind of stock being made into biodiesel? > > Will > >> >> > such > >> >> > a high FFA content give problems? > >> >> > > >> >> > Thanks. > >> >> > > >> >> > Ken > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> >> > To: <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:15 AM > >> >> > Subject: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >> Hi everyone, > >> >> >> > >> >> >> An oil mill has just told me that they have excess of crude fatty > > acid > >> >> >> distillate which they can give me with the following >specifications > > : > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Free Fatty Acid (As Lauric) - 71.8% > >> >> >> Iodine Value mg I/g - 10 > >> >> >> Total Fatty Matter - 96% > >> >> >> Moisture & Impurities - 0.5% > >> >> >> Saponifiable Value mg KOH/g - 260 > >> >> >> Unsaponifiable Matter - 0.32% > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I am now doing some small production for my own use with a blend >of > >> >> >> WVO > >> >> > and > >> >> >> new oil on the single stage process. I've read up on the two >stage > >> >> > process > >> >> >> and it looks like the above will take a two stage process with > >> >> >> 71.8% > >> > FFA. > >> >> >> Am I right? Anyone out there with some thoughts on the matter? > >> >> >> Its > >> > free > >> >> >> stuff for me although its only about 200liters monthly. Would it > >> >> >> be > >> >> > better > >> >> >> to blend it or process it separately? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Thanks > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Ken > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> Biofuel mailing list > >> >> >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >> >> >> > >> > > > >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >> >> >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives >(50,000 > >> >> > messages): > >> >> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > Biofuel mailing list > >> >> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >> >> > > >> > > > >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >> >> > > >> >> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >> >> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> >> > > >> >> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > >> >> > messages): > >> >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Biofuel mailing list > >> >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >> >> > > >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >> >> > >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >> >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> >> > >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > >> > messages): > >> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Biofuel mailing list > >> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >> > > > >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >> > > >> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> > > >> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > >> > messages): > >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Biofuel mailing list > >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >> >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >> > >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> > >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > > messages): > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuel mailing list > > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > > >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > > messages): > > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
