On 8/5/07, Thomas Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jeromie, > > To my question: > "Isn't it possible to purify water by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a > small scale so that people can have good drinking water in their own > houses/apartments/places of work?" > You answered: > " Yup that is possible. I have seen and used a number of small water > purifiers ......" > > Thanks for the reply > > As for the rest, I'm baffled. (I admit to falling for tongue-in-cheek humor > here in the past.)
I'm also not the best at getting my ideas and thoughts across the way I mean. > > >>At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price of > >> filtration quickly pay for itself ? > > > Depends on how much you drink. The small systems are in the $500 > > range. When I buy water its $1/bottle and I only do 50~75/year. I make > > a lot of tea and it is all with tap. > > Exactly! > A family of four then, would consume 200 -300 bottles a year. The > system pays for itself in about 2 years. > The fact that you use tap water to make your tea suggests that your tap > water is at least tolerable. I have a family of 4. My children do not get any where near that much bottled material. They get 1 each per weekend when we do trips. We make a gallon of tea, juice, lemon aid, or such and reuse the bottles for them. For us (well mostly me) I drink what we take along. My wife buys 15~20 bottles a month, mostly on the weekends. > > >> Shouldn't housing plans, whether for individual families or apartments, > >> consider water quality and, if necessary, include water filtration units > >> in > >> the design? > > > No, they should not, at least not only because the water might be > > poor. That is a business decision and something the builder has no > > need to do, unless they want to charge for it. The home buyer can have > > it build in if/when they want it, it adds VERY little to the price of > > the home. As for apartments that is a city responsibility, and the > > city should be held accountable for good water. > > In planning a house, an apartment building, even a shopping mall, one > should not even CONSIDER water quality that is available. ??? In a house, the designer, builder, contractors, NO they should not unless the building owner wants them to. Why should it be the responsibility of anyone except the land owner, or the person commissioning the house? In a apartment building its up to the building owner. Do I want a higher end apt with more features then the one down the block? Do i want a pool? A gated drive? Covered parking spots? Else wise, it is the job of the city. In a shopping mall or such, the same thoughts as the apt building apply, but the city water should be good enough. If it is not they should get the city to fix the water quality, that is the job of the city. > > > >> This may sound odd, but before I made the major investment of > >> buying a house I tasted the water. > > > > Not odd at all, I did the same when looking at houses that had wells. > > City water (here) I already knew the taste/quality. > > Why would you taste the water before buying/renting property? > Would the quality of the water influence whether or not you signed the > lease or bought the house? (Hence the value of the property.) To determine if I need/want to install a water conditioning system. The city water is good enough but some well water is not great out here. Also wells can have a pressure issue and I like high pressure showers. > > >> There was (is still?) an image associated with bottled water ..... > >> it's somehow special and so are those that drink it. In view of what we > >> >>now know, this is B.S. No? > > > Nope, plain water is for poor uncultured people. > > Let me see if I get this right. > Bottled water is very often tap water. > Tap water is for "poor uncultured people" > Bottled (tap) water is for ........ "special" people???? > This is not a simple case of image over substance? I was agreeing to the views that bottled water is some how better but generally is not. A sarcasm tag should have been applied. > > > We already do demand good water, it just is not enforced. > > The post I responded to suggested that people buy bottled water because > it tastes better than the available tap water. My response went to the issue > of improving taste (and overall quality) by filtration so that their tap > water tasted "good". There would be little or no need for bottled water. > In terms of enforcement, "good water" refers to water that does not > contain pathogens and whose levels of known toxins are below certain levels. > The taste and even "acceptable levels" of toxins are arguable. > In this case, regulations, even enforced, do not necessarily result in water > that tastes good. That is true. I did not address the opinion side of water taste. > > >> The value of a house or apartment is, at least in part, a function of > >> >>water quality at the tap. > > > Not today it is not. It is fairly meaningless short of "does the water > >work?" > > Refer to the top regarding tasting the water before renting/buying. > You: " Not odd at all, I did the same when looking at houses that had > wells.City water (here) I already knew the taste/quality." I see how that can be confusing. To me it was not really changing the value of the house. The way I meant that it is not a factor in todays world is that MOST people do not care beyond does it work. I have a friend who does house evaluations and he says almost no one cares about his opinion on the water. > > Jeromie, this discussion began with Keith posting an article that exposed > bottled water from Pepsi as being little more than tap water; good tap > water. Included was discussion of the environmental consequences of > packaging, transporting and disposing of literally millions and millions of > bottles that contain tap water. > > > We have always paid for water, even in your fathers time. > > You're right. Aside from the cost of digging/drilling wells, the metabolic > energy costs of hand pumping/toting from the creek/electric bills for pumps > etc, there are water bills for "city-dwellers". What was the price quoted? > Tucson Arizona tap water: "From the tap, you can pour over 6.4 gallons for a > penny." Back when my father made the comment, I suspect it was much cheaper. > I don't recall ever being charged for water when eating out, until the > bottled water craze hit. > > > Re-stating my question: > >> Is it possible to filter water so that it is not only healthy, but > >> tastes good too? > > You now reply: > > Yes it is. The problem is making it cheap. > See your previous answer re: $500 ..... adds little to the price of a new > home. > Which answer should I go with? Both answers are true. You need to look at the context for each. When building your own home, that is a piddly amount. When you rent your home, it most likely is not so piddly, and you might not even be allowed to put the unit in. Also this does not take into account the costs for the filters and etc consumables needed every year. > > >Go take a good look at your > > cities water plant from the head to the sewer ponds. Doing it en mass > > for a government (or related) body is not cheap. If you think you can > > do better then start up your own water company, nothing is stopping > > you but you. > > I don't have a city. The town near me pumps water out of an aquafir. > It's real good too. I simply asked if it was possible for an individual to > achieve better water quality, including better taste, through water > filtration. I meant this as a example of why city water is what it is as compared to bottled water. Part of the issue was also the price of city water and why it is so expensive and that some people could not afford it. > > But out of curiosity, would my water company be putting water from a > tap into plastic bottles and then transporting it over great distances to be > sold to an unsuspecting public? Would we run adds on TV, in magazines, and > on billboards suggesting that this is "special" water. Would we have > athletes, beautiful models, even movie stars giving testimonies as to how > "special" this bottled water was. What would we call it? Aquafina and Dasani > are real cool names, but they're already taken. Somehow "Tom's Tap" doesn't > sound "special" enough even though it is real good water. > As a friend, who used to be in advertising often says: "Image and logo > recognition." That would be up to you. I agree there needs to be a clearer release on what the product is. I did not do a good job of expressing myself. > > Gotta go work on the logo. > Tom > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeromie Reeves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 2:36 PM > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water > > > > On 8/4/07, Thomas Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> John, > >> I have well water. It is good. I've been to people's houses and > >> have > >> been given bottled water to drink. > >> > >> > most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled > >> > water > >> > companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? > >> > >> I haven't researched water purifiers. Isn't it possible to purify > >> water > >> by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a small scale so that people can have > >> good drinking water in their own houses/apartments/places of work? > > > > Yup that is possible. I have seen and used a number of small water > > purifiers at some eco minded peoples homes here in the valley. They > > all have solar panels and a few have wind (thats where I met them) > > > > www.freedrinkingwater.com > > > >> Couldn't > >> they then put it in durable (nalgene?) bottles for when they go out? > >> This, > >> rather than buying bottled tap water that has been transported many > >> miles, > >> in "disposable" containers that contribute so much to landfills, let > >> alone > >> the energy/resources wasted to produce. Like I said, I haven't looked > >> into > >> At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price of > >> filtration quickly pay for itself ? > > > > Depends on how much you drink. The small systems are in the $500 > > range. When I buy water its $1/bottle and I only do 50~75/year. I make > > a lot of tea and it is all with tap. > > > > > >> Shouldn't housing plans, whether for individual families or > >> apartments, > >> consider water quality and, if necessary, include water filtration units > >> in > >> the design? > > > > No, they should not, at least not only because the water might be > > poor. That is a business decision and something the builder has no > > need to do, unless they want to charge for it. The home buyer can have > > it build in if/when they want it, it adds VERY little to the price of > > the home. As for apartments that is a city responsibility, and the > > city should be held accountable for good water. > > > >> This may sound odd, but before I made the major investment of > >> buying a house I tasted the water. > > > > Not odd at all, I did the same when looking at houses that had wells. > > City water (here) I already knew the taste/quality. > > > > > >> Back then it was common practice to taste > >> the water before buying a house. Quality water was a very high priority. > >> The > >> value of a house or apartment is, at least in part, a function of water > >> quality at the tap. > > > > Not today it is not. It is fairly meaningless short of "does the water > > work?" > > > >> There was (is still?) an image associated with bottled water ..... > >> it's somehow special and so are those that drink it. In view of what we > >> now > >> know, this is B.S. No? > > > > Nope, plain water is for poor uncultured people. Now its all about > > flavored water. I admit that half the water I buy is a brand called > > Option. I pay $0.88 per bottle and only buy when its on sale. This is > > mostly for when I am on a trip or going to be working on roofs. > > > >> What if we decided to ensure good water at our taps > >> and better still, good water at the source? What if we took as much pride > >> in > >> the water coming from our tap as we do in the view we have from our > >> living > >> room or our back deck? > > > > We already do demand good water, it just is not enforced. > > > > > >> > >> I'm old enough to remember a day when my father would take us to a > >> ball > >> game and complain about having to pay for parking at the stadium lot. > >> He'd say "Next thing, we'll be paying for water." > > > > We have always paid for water, even in your fathers time. The next > > time you go out to eat pay attention to the wait staff. They put out > > free glasses of water. You know why that is? Law. I forget the details > > but some time ago (100yrs?) people were being charged stupid amounts > > for a glass of water with a meal (IIRC had to do with hot weather). > > Law was passed so this is now free. > > > >> > >> Is it possible to filter water so that it is not only healthy, but > >> tastes good too? > > > > Yes it is. The problem is making it cheap. Go take a good look at your > > cities water plant from the head to the sewer ponds. Doing it en mass > > for a government (or related) body is not cheap. If you think you can > > do better then start up your own water company, nothing is stopping > > you but you. > > > >> Tom > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "John Mullan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > >> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 1:22 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water > >> > >> > >> > Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as > >> > that > >> > provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a > >> > number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much > >> > superior. > >> > If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. > >> > And > >> > most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled > >> > water > >> > companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? > >> > > >> > My 2 cents. > >> > John > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison > >> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM > >> > To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >> > Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water > >> > > >> > > >> > http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ > >> > AlterNet: Environment: > >> > > >> > Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water > >> > > >> > By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! > >> > Posted on August 2, 2007 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Biofuel mailing list > >> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >> > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >> > > >> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> > > >> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > >> > messages): > >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Biofuel mailing list > >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >> > >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> > >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > >> messages): > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuel mailing list > > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > > messages): > > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
