Terry,
Let me start by thanking you.
I (Tom) posted the info in question i.e.: "The problem for the home
brewer
is that water in the ethanol tends to fall out when gasoline is added."
> Where did you get any of this information from? (You asked)
1. The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel
by S.W. Mathewson
Ten Speed Press
© Copyright 1980 J.A. Diaz Publications
"Alcohol blends do have one relatively minor drawback. The presence of even
small amounts of water in the blend will cause a portion of the alcohol and
gasoline to separate. At room temperature, less than 1% water can do the
damage. As the temperature is lowered, amounts as small as 0.01% can cause
separation."
2. http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id28.html
"But the only kind of alcohol which will mix with gasoline (petrol) is 100%
(200 proof) ethanol. If you have any water content in your home-made
ethanol, it will separate out once you mix it with petrol."
3. I also went to the list archives
Search "Hydrous Gasohol" ....... the consensus seemed to support my
belief.
**** Then I found that you may well be right.
There's an interesting exchange that includes science as opposed to
speculation and opinion.
Ken Provost suggested googling "ternary phase diagrams ethanol water
gasoline.
(see concluding post below)
At 68F (20C) ethanol/gasoline blends with concentrations above 70%
ethanol hold water.
E85 should work fine even if the ethanol is 5 or even 10% water.
The post:
Re: [biofuel] Re: Extracting alcohol instead of distilling?
Ken Provost
23 Aug 2004 19:39:53 -0000
>> The diagram suggests that I can accomodate
>> about 2% to 5% water in ethanol and blend
>> it with gasoline without separation at 21 deg. C.
>Yes, if you want to use mostly gasoline -- I personally like
>that big clear area at the top of the diagram, say, around
>80% ethanol, 10% water, and 10% gasoline. You'd still have
>to distill the alcohol to get that high, but a simple still
>(no fractionation or mol. sieve req'd) would do it. Of course,
>at those percentages, why bother with the gasoline at all?
-K
Thanks Terry,
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
Terry Wilhelm
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:30 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol
The emails were clipped. So I am not sure if this came from Dave or Tom.
Sorry to maybe have it crossed.
--- On Wed, 3/30/11, Terry Wilhelm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Terry Wilhelm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 6:22 PM
Dave,
I had to come back to this email to ask you a few questions about your post.
1. Where did you get any of this information from?
2. What are you talking about, "The problem for the home brewer
is that water in the ethanol tends to fall out when gasoline is added."
Where did you get this info? Have you tried this and saw it happen?
I have mixed hundreds of gallons of ethanol (150 - 190 proof) with various
ratios to gasoline. I have let several set in a test tube jar so that
marked levels can be watched. The only thing that I can say that we saw was
the gasoline evaporating.
Methanol - there is a reason that this is not used for the general public.
Its not friendly on your hands, your fuel system, but mostly, the air/fuel
is way off.
Regards,
Terry Wilhelm
The Revenoor Company
--- On Wed, 3/30/11, Dave Hajoglou <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Dave Hajoglou <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fuel grade ethanol
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 1:16 PM
On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Tom Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In order to get a permit to distill fuel grade ethanol in the United
> States it must be denatured. The recommended method is to add 2 gallons of
> unleaded gasoline to 98 gallons of ethanol. The problem for the home
brewer
> is that water in the ethanol tends to fall out when gasoline is added. A
> solution to water in the tank is to add "dry gas" (methanol).
> My questions are:
> -Would it be unwise to denature fuel grade ethanol with methanol
> and then used in a Flex Fuel vehicle such as a '99 Ford Ranger? (3.0L Flex
> Fuel version). The water issue would be eliminated.
> -Any problems running a Flex Fuel vehicle on blends of ethanol,
> gasoline, and methanol?
>
I'd skip the "recommended method" and go with a drop of gas to your
100 gal of ethanol. So long as you don't drink it, serve it to your
friends, or boast that you can produce some fine moonshine you should
be ok. (should). I have no ideas about the methanol mix.
-hojo
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