Ronan, you may or may not know that together with Lisa Seeman a formal objection was raised to WCAG2 in respect of the needs of people with learning disabilities**.
It is disingenuous in the extreme to suggest that I should work through WAI. The reason I left WAI was their absolute obsession with HTML, and their disinterest in other technologies (I wrote the original accessible client-side scripting guidelines but js isn't a w3 technology - yawn) The protocols and format working group supposedly would contribute to SVG accessibility understanding and documentation. however they have nothing to show. I had offered to join, and this is still awaiting approval many years later... I thus chose to work directly with UA developers and other w3 working groups such as SVG, RDF etc... By all means contact WAI and seek direction, but don't think that suggesting that I should, excuses the SVG WG from taking such action themselves. It is not sufficient to rely on the text of individual specs which are deficient in themselves. Doug for instance chooses which parts of 1.2 will be acceptable. What research says "Most people would find an audio component annoying, " Audio is clearly a very successful function of flash. evidently macromedia don't concur, and it seems neither do adobe. If true why is there no requirement for a UA option to turn it off? Mozilla appear to be using this as a rationale for not implementing what cheers Jonathan Chetwynd **This is a large group ~20% UK population that stand to benefit significantly from SVG, yet afaik the SVGWG has not engaged in, commissioned, proposed or studied any research into their needs. On 5 Sep 2006, at 15:52, Ronan Oger wrote: Jonathan... Piggybacking on Doug's response. Doug is on the *SVG* workgroup, and as he says, he is organising an *SVG* contest. If a w3 (or other) workgroup wishes to provide best practices for accessibility that can be applied to SVG, then I am sure that Doug's contest will consider supporting this. However, there is no point in arguing this point to death on this group. It's simply not the right context to beat this to death in. We can't all be experts in all things. Why don't you put your point forward to WAI? Maybe it's worth putting them over a barrel more than it is worth sticking it to Doug. SVG is nothing more than the rendering layer for peoples' applications after all, and we will never be able to display to many people (like those without PCs for example). Somehow, I don't imagine WAI or anyone else proposing any panaceas. The general thing i see so far seems to be descriptions and metadata. Ronan On Tuesday 05 September 2006 16:15, Doug Schepers wrote: > Hi, Jonathan- > > Jonathan Chetwynd wrote: > > I'm really concerned about your claims to understand accessibility > > and intentions to update the 2000 SVG guidelines. > > I never claimed to understand every issue involving accessibility, nor > do I think you or any one person does either. This is why I will be > working with Chaals and the WAI IG to try to reach the broadest possible > set of accessibility needs. > > > >>the logo will be distinctive, simple, and elegant. > > > > the image http://www.w3.org/Graphics/ > > ---------- > > > > is unlikely to be described in these terms > > But my description does fit an ideal format for an iconic logo, which is > meant to do 2 things: > 1) serve as an indicator of necessary browser functionality; > 2) help establish a "brand identity" for SVG. > > I'm sorry that this logo contest does not serve your agenda. May I > suggest that you consider running a contest of your own, which > emphasizes the qualities in SVG art that you are looking for? > > > >>since this is intended for print and rasterization as well as SVG- > > > > format viewing, the logo will not have sound > > > > providing sound has nothing to do with whether the logo will be > > printed, obviously there is no expectation that the printed logo will > > sound. afaik providing sound for SVG1.2 has no known downside for > > other technologies. > > Most people would find an audio component annoying, and would not use it > on their site. If you want to submit a suitable sound clip, however, I > will consider adding it to logo site as an optional addition. > > > >>nor will there be interactivity nor focus > > > > Why not? if the logo is used as a link it should provide visual > > feedback when in focus, or at least the place it is embedded in > > should. This was the purpose of hover and border in html. > > It's extremely annoying that you clipped off the part of my reply that > deals directly with your concern, then accused me of not addressing it: > "(or rather, the default initial focus will be on the root)". I invite > you to read the SVGT1.2 spec and disabuse yourself of the notion that > there is no indicator of focus. [1] > > > >>The best way to achieve accessibility for a logo such as this is > > > > to have a text fallback, > > sorry this is just plain wrong, text is but one approach, which > > happens to suit a vocal and able minority. > > This is too vague to supply any criteria for accessibility, beyond your > vocal complaints. > > > text is also an accessibility bonus. not as a fallback, but as a > > visible label. Very few people have access to a screen reader, let > > alone one that works with any sort of SVG, they tend to be very > > expensive. > > There will be a visible text component as well, which you would know if > you read the svglogo.com Web site. However, because Firefox does not > yet implement SVG Fonts, some of the "letters" may just be graphics... > and that is what the text fallback is for. > > [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/ interact.html#specifyingfocushighlight > > Regards- > -Doug > > > ----- > To unsubscribe send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my > membership" ---- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Ronan Oger Director RO IT Systems GmbH ...Building Web2.0 with SVG since 2001 http://www.roitsystems.com ----- To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" ---- Yahoo! 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