What's the going rate for support from Sensio for an app developed against symfony?
On Mon, 2009-11-02 at 19:15 +0200, Alexandru-Emil Lupu wrote: > However, symfony is open source ... :) as fabien said ... no one has > thought to help financial sensio labs or symfony project ... > if is so powerfull and your managers are satisfied about the product, > you could try convince them to donate a small amount of money to > symfony project ... > Unfortunatelly, my manager is not a tech person and also does not > understand the donation concept... he's an accountant > Alecs > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Derrek <dle...@allofzero.com> wrote: > > > I would love to see a TCO study as well. > > It's just hard to compare. One of my clients that has been > resisting > symfony/php for a while just opted to have me build a > standalone > module in it. The module is a reporting tool that seamlessly > integrates with their database. The module took a month to > build and > exposes all of the databases tables (over 200 tables) for > statistical > processing. I couldn't have built it without symfony + > doctrine. It > could have taken months or even years on a non-mvc-orm > platform. I > didn't have to write any form code (because of > widgets/validators), > sql (because of doctrine) or handle anything but building my > own > report logic. *and* it works on SQL server and MySQL which is > huge > since this client is migrating from SQL to MySQL at the same > time as > releasing this tool. > > It's so powerful that the client is thinking about selling it > as an > add-on component as their user base would not need crystal > reports or > other reporting tools anymore. > > If you factor in situations like that, symfony would pay for > itself > dozens or hundreds of times over. > > --Derrek > > > On Nov 2, 10:25 am, Lee Bolding <l...@leesbian.net> wrote: > > OK, now that you've mentioned porting an existing > application, I can > > *kind of* understand that. > > > > I'd expect most management to take the approach "if it ain't > broke, > > don't fix it" - and in their eyes it ain't broke. > > > > A while back I was in a similar situation - like you, I > tried to > > explain the case of doing it the correct way (cheaper, > faster, easier > > to maintain, following conventions(!) less risk, etc) but > they weren't > > interested. > > > > If I had the time, I'd do a TCO study for my next symfony > project - > > showing how long certain aspects took with symfony, how long > they'd > > have taken without symfony, and how that affected the > overall cost/ > > profitability of the project. > > > > It would also be good to see a similar thing to compare > different > > frameworks - after all, apart from availability of > developers with > > experience, the next most important thing about a framework > (for > > management) is how much it's going to cost or save them, > isn't it? > > > > On 1 Nov 2009, at 21:44,Derrekwrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Do you know the reason they don't want to use symfony? is > it because > > >> they want to maintain the application themselves? or with > labour > > >> cheaper than yourself once it's built? it would be > interesting to > > >> know... as it could spur on a symfony and TCO study or > something. > > > > > It's a bunch of things. Using symfony would actually let > them get less > > > costly help than me once the app is written. The problem I > think is > > > the up-front investment in conversion. Most of them have > tech guys > > > that are comfortable with how things are now. So the tech > guys tell > > > management "we don't think it's worth the cost". It's much > much *much* > > > (let me reiterate *MUCH*) easier to get management to > start with > > > symfony on a new project. But if there is an existing > system, even in > > > php, they shy away from it. It may be a good idea to have > tutorials > > > for showing how efficiently an app can be re-developed in > symfony when > > > coming from another platform. > > > > >> I actually find that it takes me considerably longer to > do anything > > >> when not using symfony now... validators? security? ORM? > ergh. Even > > >> simple CRUD applications can be knocked out quickly - > remember the > > >> original Blog screencast for 1.0? how long did that take? > 8 minutes > > >> or > > >> so? > > > > > I concur, especially on new development. I can knockout a > new project > > > for a demo in a few days. Polish a large project in a few > weeks. But > > > migrating an existing system with 200+ tables in a best > case scenario > > > takes time. Time that will be saved when faced with the > idea of re- > > > creating what symfony does very well already. One of my > clients just > > > spent days re-creating doctrine's nested set capabilities. > They kept > > > looking for ways to make it "better" for their needs. In > the end they > > > spent dozens of man-hours creating something that is > entirely inferior > > > to doctrine's nested set. It would have taken me 2-3 hours > if they > > > were already in symfony. > > > > >> The only argument I can see against using symfony is for > the > > >> reasons I > > >> mentioned above. > > > > > I'm not sure there are any rational arguments to not use > symfony (or > > > any other competent MVC framework like Zend). Except that > I get paid > > > way more in the long term on a project if I *don't* get > them on > > > symfony because I have to re-create so much of what it > does. :) Again, > > > I don't mind this. Clients that choose symfony accelerate > their > > > product development and meet the users needs better. The > problem is > > > proving that to management. > > > > > Anyway, back to work. > > > > > --Derrek > > > > > > -- > As programmers create bigger & better idiot proof programs, so the > universe creates bigger & better idiots! > I am on web: http://www.alecslupu.ro/ > I am on twitter: http://twitter.com/alecslupu > I am on linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alecslupu > Tel: (+4)0748.543.798 > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "symfony users" group. To post to this group, send email to symfony-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to symfony-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/symfony-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
