Hi,

On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Andy Ray Terrel <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Aaron S. Meurer <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> On Mar 29, 2011, at 12:51 AM, Andy Ray Terrel wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Tim Lahey <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On 03-29-2011, at 1:44 AM, Andy Ray Terrel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There are some major confusions on this list about the difference
>>>>> between algorithms and storage.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not confused and I'm not sure if other people are. I just think 
>>>> storage alone isn't suitable for a GSoC project. Certainly one could just 
>>>> implement storage techniques behind the scenes and no algorithms, but that 
>>>> would only save space, not computation time.
>>>
>>> On modern hardware, computation is free memory is expensive.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, it is typical to use iterative
>>>>> algorithms with sparse matrices and factorizations with dense, but
>>>>> this is because sparse matrices are typically very large (1M -- 10^12
>>>>> entries with 1000 -- 2B non-zeros).  One will switch to things that
>>>>> don't fill in the matrix but SymPy will probably never be at this
>>>>> level.
>>>>
>>>> With symbolic matrices, the computation time for each calculation is much 
>>>> higher than with numerical matrices so the benefit of sparse matrix 
>>>> techniques occur at much smaller matrix sizes.
>>>>
>>>>>  One can implement some Krylov subspace iteration algorithms,
>>>>> but its somewhat pointless (how do you evaluate a residual in
>>>>> symbols).  Another algorithm ILU versus LU is also silly (basically it
>>>>> throws away small fill in entries but we have no way of saying what is
>>>>> small in symbolics).  For this reason I suggest just implementing
>>>>> standard factorizations and dealing with the fill in as it happens if
>>>>> we get to the point that we need to do UMFPACK style direct
>>>>> factorizations we can do that the next summer.  We practitioners only
>>>>> use "algorithms suited for sparse matrices" because of the size of the
>>>>> matrices which will not be an issue in SymPy.
>>>>
>>>> I've already stated that storage isn't suitable for a GSoC project.
>>>
>>> I respectfully disagree.  Furthermore I find it distasteful for one
>>> applicant to tell another that their idea is not suitable.
>>
>> Let's remain civil.  I think it is important to decide what is needed and 
>> what is less needed, or what will be better than the current (dense) 
>> implementation and what will actually end up being worse.
>
> Please give me your guide of civility so I can rip out every page and
> use it as toilet paper.

I don't think that will serve you well, civility is very important:

http://www.codesimplicity.com/post/open-source-community-simplified/ -
see 'Encourage a total absence of personal negativity'.
http://producingoss.com/en/setting-tone.html see 'Nipping rudeness in the bud'

Best,

Matthew

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sympy" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/sympy?hl=en.

Reply via email to