Alan
From: "edndana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:04:43 -0400
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Alan -
My understanding was that they did those four workouts in five days, they
called it "survive the five"
- Ed Parrot ----- Original Message ----- From: "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 2:34 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> You are correct Ed, but it was only those 4 and they weren't back to back
to
> back to back. Josh Cox did similar workouts when he (is he still?) was
under
> Fila/Rosa's care. A long progression run of 30-42k, up to 25 x 1:00/1:00
> fartlek, and long intervals. The famed Flouspar Hill 13 mile hill run was
> also thrown in there ocassionally and was also a sort of progression run.
> The FILA USA program seemed to have flopped with a number of injuries and
> "political" problems. The fact that the US program was plagued with
injuries
> and the Rosa Kenyan program has done well gives even more light to the
rumor
> that Rosa is a druglord.
>
> Alan
>
>
> >From: "edndana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: "edndana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:43:24 -0400
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> >
> >Perhaps it's how one defines quality workouts, but I know the group at
the
> >FILA center was doing this a couple years ago:
> >
> >-1 day with 25-40x1:00 on/1:00 off, with the "on" minutes at 3K-5K race
> >pace and the off minutes a notch or two faster thaneasy distance.
> >-1 day with 10-15km of long intervals (1000m-5000m) at 10 km-10 mile race
> >pace.
> >-1 day of a long uphill run - 50-90 minutes - with a gradual increase in
> >pace so the end was very very hard
> >-1 day of 30-35k starting a bit slower than maathon pace and finishing a
> >bit
> >faster.
> >
> >They had one additional workout in there I believe as well. After the
five
> >days hard, they'd take 1-2 days easy and then start again. They did this
> >for 10 weeks or so and several people got huge marathon PR's.
> >
> >- Ed
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 10:31 AM
> >Subject: RE: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> >
> >
> > > Four quality workouts in a row week after week WILL destroy your body
> >and
> > > WILL overtrain you. In the ONE Geb week no mention is made of what
kind
> >of
> > > "sprint work" he is doing on that day. Hell, anyone can do 10x200 near
> >all
> > > out with 200 meter recoveries at the end of an easy run everyday but I
> > > wouldn't call that a very hard workout. Sprint work isn't made to be
> > > tiresome. So in his ONE week we have a long run, a hard tempo-type
run,
> > > track intervals, and "sprint work". If his sprint work isn't that
> >demanding
> > > then I don't see how the week is so much different than what has been
> > > successful for years. If he truly is running 4 very hard days back to
> >back
> > > then we have to look and see that is again only ONE week. Now, if he's
> >doing
> > > this week in and week out then we've have to look and see what he's
> >using
> >to
> > > be able to recover so quickly. I think it's foolish to look at this
ONE
> >week
> > > and conclude that this is how he trains week in and week out. Even if
he
> > > does do this week in and week out then I think it's foolish to think
> >he's
> > > doing this without some sort of recovery "enhancement" (growth
hormone,
> > > synthetic steroid, etc).
> > >
> > > PS-I too know the effects of running back to back to back to back hard
> >days
> > > as I did it quite often in high school. 4 hard days a week was the
norm
> >with
> > > some weeks 5 or 6 hard days. I improved for two years then remained
> >pretty
> > > static. My former college coach used the same system and improvement
> >came
> > > little by little. When I tried to adapt the same 4 hard day a week
> >schedule
> > > to a marathon I ended up with an achilles injury.
> > >
> > > Alan
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Michael Contopoulos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >Subject: RE: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> > > >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:22:44 -0400
> > > >MIME-Version: 1.0
> > > >X-Originating-IP: [198.240.130.75]
> > > >X-Originating-Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> > > >HTTP;Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:22:44 GMT
> > > >
> > > >Alan, just read them. Sorry, I don't see the number of intense
> >workouts
> > > >that would ever suggest to me that any of these guys will be near
2:08
> >or
> > > >27:20 let alone 2:05 and 26:22.
> > > >
> > > >Im talking ablout 4 workouts in a row, 30 miles on Sunday (not 20),
> >etc.
> > > >There are so many AM: 10, PM: 10 in these logs I am giving myself a
> > > >headache. If they were doing hill followeed by tempo, followed by
> > > >interval, followed by sprint, all in the midst of 2-a days, 30 miles
of
> > > >running on Sunday and 2 "easy days" then I will agree. You haven't
> >shown
> > > >me that yet.
> > > >
> > > >I had a coach in college who I probably did not respect as much as I
> >should
> > > >have (Coach Hadsell... if you're out there... here's a shout-out).
He
> > > >would have us do a hill workout one day followed by a tempo the next
> >and
> > > >fartleks on the 3rd. I thought I was being over-trained. Turns out
I
> >was
> > > >just a wimp.
> > > >
> > > >M
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>From: "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> > > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >>Subject: RE: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> > > >>Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:36:05 +0000
> > > >>
> > > >>Mike, a lot of Americans are doing this. Check out Rod Dehaven's
log:
> > > >>www.allsportrunning.com/rodscorner. Check out the Hanson's Runners
> >and
> > > >>their training:
> >http://www.hansons-running.com/ecom/sp/cat=Training+Log
> > > >>I don't think it has been shown anywhere that the top US runners are
> > > >>running a lot of miles really slow. What I see is a tried and true
> >process
> > > >>that has been successful for 20-30 years: 100-150 miles a week, a
long
> >run
> > > >>that is usually run pretty fast or at least with fast segments, a
long
> > > >>workout be it either "threshold" or just long intervals, and a short
> > > >>workout consisting of your basic Vo2max type intervals. Some may add
a
> > > >>hill workout here and there or a short sprint workout here and there
> >but
> > > >>the basics are still the same: Lots of miles at a moderate or
> >sometimes
> > > >>fast pace, a long moderate run, two workouts.
> > > >>
> > > >>Alan
> > > >>
> > > >>>From: "Michael Contopoulos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>Reply-To: "Michael Contopoulos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >>>Subject: RE: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> > > >>>Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:03:50 -0400
> > > >>>MIME-Version: 1.0
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> >27
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> >27
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> > > >>>HTTP;Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:03:50 GMT
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> > > >>>
> > > >>>I find it interesting that when all of you post you throw names out
> >like
> > > >>>Pirie, Zatopek and Igloi's. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY'S AMERICANS.
> > > >>>Listen, being 25 and having run at least at one time with guys in
> >pretty
> > > >>>much every distance final at USATF's at one point or another... and
> > > >>>because discussing training brings great joy to my life, I can tell
> >you
> > > >>>that TODAY'S AMERICANS do NOT train as much quality as I would
> >imagine
> >it
> > > >>>would take to run as fast as the E. Africans. In the US we have
two
> > > >>>mode's of thinking... "easy" mileage or lots of shorter faster
runs.
> > > >>>People don't undertstand... you need to be doing mileage, fast and
> >often,
> > > >>>with workouts 3-5 times a week where you focus on ALL aspects of
> >running
> > > >>>including sprinting! Its not one or the other. Its not 150 miles
> >easy
> >or
> > > >>>80 miles hard. Its 150 miles hard with workouts.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>M
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>From: "P.F.Talbot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>>Reply-To: "P.F.Talbot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>>To: "\"Athletics\"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>>Subject: RE: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> > > >>>>Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 09:39:12 -0600
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>On hard training. People seem to forget that Pirie, Zatopek and
> >Igloi's
> > > >>>>runners would run 100+ mile weeks of intervals. People trained
> >"harder"
> > > >>>>in
> > > >>>>that era than in any other. Obviously it didn't produce sub 27:00
> > > >>>>10k's. I
> > > >>>>seriously doubt that it's a matter of western runners not training
> >hard
> > > >>>>enough.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>If there is a mental block my guess it would be more on the lines
> >of,
> > > >>>>"they're on drugs so we can't beat them." To which I say, go do
> >drugs,
> > > >>>>but
> > > >>>>that's another matter entirely.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>-----Original Message-----
> > > >>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >>>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of edndana
> > > >>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 5:22 PM
> > > >>>>To: "Athletics"
> > > >>>>Subject: Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>Joe -
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Well. ..you and I are arguing over semantics, and I don't
think
> >our
> > > >>>>argument has anything to do with whatever "problem" there is.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>Five years ago, I sensed more of the "excuse" mentality from
> >American
> > > >>>>runners - I don't so much any more. Maybe they aren't training
hard
> > > >>>>enough - I really am not sure - but I don't think we have the same
> > > >>>>mentality
> > > >>>>problem we used to have.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>As for Geb's hard days in a row, Bruce Lehane's subsequent post
> >would
> > > >>>>seem
> > > >>>>to contradict it. But the world's best marathoners (including
> > > >>>>Americans)
> > > >>>>have been doing a variation on that for at least 30 years. Derek
> >Clayon
> > > >>>>may
> > > >>>>have been the first to really push that particular envelope,
> >although
> >I
> > > >>>>can't help wondering if Lydiard also did during his
experimentation
> >in
> > > >>>>the
> > > >>>>1950's and din't have the same success. I don't know what kind of
> > > >>>>training
> > > >>>>Khannouchi does, but plenty of the Africans do numerous medium to
> >hard
> > > >>>>days
> > > >>>>in a row.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>For the 5K/10K, true Lydiard disciples did the same thing.
> >Lydiard's
> > > >>>>hill
> > > >>>>phase was five days per week of hills/speed and his speed phase
was
> >4-5
> > > >>>>days
> > > >>>>of speed. As I'm sure you'll agree, this is nothing new. We are
> > > >>>>unfortunately victims of the hard-easy philosophy in this country.
> >That
> > > >>>>sometimes works, even at the elite level, but I don't believe it
is
> >the
> > > >>>>surest way to success.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>- Ed
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>----- Original Message -----
> > > >>>>From: "Joe Rubio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>>To: "edndana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>>Cc: <"Athletics"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"@mtac2.prodigy.net>
> > > >>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 6:43 PM
> > > >>>>Subject: Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> > Ed,
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > You think maybe this is part of our "problem" as a distance
> >running
> > > >>>> > nation is the fact that we are arguing over a few miles each
way
> > > >>>>whereas
> > > >>>> > athletes in other countries are thinking 120-150 or whatever
they
> > > >>>> > actually do at whatever pace they actually do it is just plain
> >old
> > > >>>> > average weekly training if you want to be competitive?
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > Joe
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> > edndana wrote:
> > > >>>> > > I don't know, I can't classify 150 mpw, which is no less than
> > > >>>>probably
> > > >>>> > > 80-90% of the world's elite have ever done, as moderate. 120
> >mpw,
> > > >>>>sure,
> > > >>>> > > that's the very upper end of moderate for an elite male, but
> >what
> > > >>>>Geb
> > > >>>>does
> > > >>>> > > does not look like that much less than the top guys have been
> >doing
> > > >>>>for
> > > >>>>30
> > > >>>> > > years. Look at the Olympic 5/10/Mar medalists and they have
> >mostly
> > > >>>>been
> > > >>>> > > doing 120-160 since at least 1972, so we can't call Geb
> >moderate
> > > >>>>unless
> > > >>>>we
> > > >>>> > > compare him to guys who were in the small minority.
> > > >>>> > >
> > > >>>> > > I doubt the median of the top 10 guys in the 5K/10K/Mar has
> >changed
> > > >>>>all
> > > >>>>that
> > > >>>> > > much over the past 30 years, and we can't call that moderate.
> > > >>>>Knowing
> > > >>>>to
> > > >>>> > > run 140-160 instead of 200 is old news, and was old news even
> >back
> > > >>>>when
> > > >>>> > > Bowerman made his observation in the early 1970's.
> > > >>>> > >
> > > >>>> > > - Ed Parrot
> > > >>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >>>> > > From: "Joe Rubio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>> > > To: "edndana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>> > > Cc: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> > > >>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 5:02 PM
> > > >>>> > > Subject: Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> > > >>>> > >
> > > >>>> > >
> > > >>>> > >
> > > >>>> > >>Ed,
> > > >>>> > >>
> > > >>>> > >>"High" mileage by my definition are what a guy like Scobey
did
> >in
> > > >>>>the
> > > >>>> > >>early 70's in response to Bedford. 210 a week with a hard
> >track
> > > >>>>workout
> > > >>>> > >>each day at lunch. 12 in the AM, 6 at lunch with interval
> >work,
> >12
> > > >>>> > >>before dinner every day except Sunday when it was 30 as hard
as
> >he
> > > >>>>could
> > > >>>> > >>make it for a month straight. THAT's high mileage and high
> > > >>>>intensity.
> > > >>>> > >>I'm pretty sure Bill set an AR a few weeks after completing
> >that
> > > >>>>month.
> > > >>>> > >> In my mind, 60-100 a week less than this volume would
> >classify
> > > >>>>as
> > > >>>> > >>moderate.
> > > >>>> > >>
> > > >>>> > >>Joe
> > > >>>> > >>
> > > >>>> > >>edndana wrote:
> > > >>>> > >>
> > > >>>> > >>>I tend to think that Khalid Khannouchi and Deena Drossin
would
> > > >>>>have
> > > >>>> > >>>something to say about who the 2 best distance runners in
Norh
> > > >>>>America
> > > >>>> > >>
> > > >>>> > > are
> > > >>>> > >
> > > >>>> > >>>if you include marathoners as distance runners. I'm not so
> >sure
> > > >>>>Regina
> > > >>>> > >>>couldn't still break 14:59, either.
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>As for the moderate volume at faster paces, it's certainly
not
> > > >>>>true of
> > > >>>> > >>>today's world class marathoners or cross country runners.
And
> >if
> > > >>>>the
> > > >>>> > >>>training schedule for Geb below is accurate, he's doing
> >somewhere
> > > >>>> > >>
> > > >>>> > > between
> > > >>>> > >
> > > >>>> > >>>120 and 150 mpw, not exactly "moderate" mileage by most
> >standards.
> > > >>>>Many
> > > >>>> > >>
> > > >>>> > > of
> > > >>>> > >
> > > >>>> > >>>today's runners are actually doing as much or more mileage
and
> > > >>>>doing it
> > > >>>> > >>>faster.
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>- Ed Parrot
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>----- Original Message -----
> > > >>>> > >>>From: "Martin J. Dixon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>> > >>>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>> > >>>Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 2:01 PM
> > > >>>> > >>>Subject: Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>Maybe the Americans(and Can men) should take a page out of
> >the
> > > >>>>books
> > > >>>>of
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>the 2
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>best distance runners in North America right now-Emilie
> >Mondor
> > > >>>>and
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>Courtney
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>Babcock. Mondor broke a 15 year old national record today
and
> > > >>>>Babcock
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>missed by
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>.18.
> > > >>>> > >>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>Joe Rubio wrote:
> > > >>>> > >>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>John,
> > > >>>> > >>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>From his 5k, 10k and marathon times I'd guess he's running
> >at
> > > >>>>5:20
> > > >>>> > >>>>
> > > >>>> > > pace
> > > >>>> > >
> > > >>>> > >>>>>for an easier recovery run, 5:00-5:20 for your everyday -
> >garden
> > > >>>> > >>>>
> > > >>>> > > variety
> > > >>>> > >
> > > >>>> > >>>>>long run, maybe even dropping it down to 4:48 pace near
the
> >end.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>Something I read from Dellinger a number of years back
> >sticks
> > > >>>>out in
> > > >>>>my
> > > >>>> > >>>>>mind. Now I'm paraphrasing here using a badly damaged
brain
> > > >>>>this AM
> > > >>>>of
> > > >>>> > >>>>>too much coffee but I believe he said something to the
> >effect
> > > >>>>that
> > > >>>>the
> > > >>>> > >>>>>next generation of dominant distance runner will not focus
> >on
> > > >>>>the
> > > >>>> > >>>>
> > > >>>> > > weekly
> > > >>>> > >
> > > >>>> > >>>>>mileage so much as they will be running a moderate volume
of
> > > >>>>weekly
> > > >>>> > >>>>>mileage at much faster paces all around. In his
estimation,
> > > >>>>almost
> > > >>>> > >>>>>everything such as long runs and "recovery" days would be
> >done
> > > >>>>at
> > > >>>> > >>>>
> > > >>>> > > approx
> > > >>>> > >
> > > >>>> > >>>>>5 minute pace, while still maintaining an appropriate (for
> >them)
> > > >>>>volume
> > > >>>> > >>>>>of work at 1500, 5k and 10k paces. I can dig up the
actual
> > > >>>>quote
> > > >>>>from
> > > >>>> > >>>>>his book in the early 80's called "Training for
Competitive
> > > >>>>Distance
> > > >>>> > >>>>>Runners" or something close, published by Runner's World
> >Press
> > > >>>>in
> > > >>>>1984
> > > >>>> > >>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>(?).
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>Looks like Bill saw the writing on the wall back 20 years
> >ago.
> > > >>>>Seems
> > > >>>> > >>>>>similar to the wall Coe saw in the early 80's as well.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>Joe
> > > >>>> > >>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>John Schiefer wrote:
> > > >>>> > >>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>The real question is how does Geb define "easy" on his
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>training runs.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>I'm sure easy for Geb is about 5:45 pace.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>Schiefer
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>--- malmo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>Yup Mike, the Letsrun mentality has infected you.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>Find one
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>From: Michael Contopoulos
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 7:02 PM
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>Subject: RE: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>Malmo, on Letsrun you noted that what Geb does is
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>pretty standard
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>training.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>I disagree. The guy does 4 days of workouts in a
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>row (not including the
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>in
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>betwen easy hour runs) ON TOP of his 3 hour long run
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>followed by a 1
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>hour
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>run.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>hard 15-30km run
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>1 hour easy
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>sprint workout
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>1 hour easy
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>hills
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>1 hours easy
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>3x1200 to 8x2000
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>w hour easy
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>You tell me that Meb, Pepper, Abdi, Browne, Johnson
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>are doing 4 workouts
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>in
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>consecutive days (with a "sprint" session in
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>there... which of those
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>guys
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>does a "sprint" session?)...on top of a 3 hour run
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>followed by a one
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>hour
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>run once a week... well... round of drinks is on me.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>geb trains much
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>harder
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>than our guys. And he's supremely confident. And
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>he's supremely
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>talented.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>That's pretty darn near impossible to beat.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>From: "malmo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>Reply-To: "malmo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>To: "'edndana'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>Subject: RE: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:18:03 -0400
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>I'm basing my wager on this crowd:
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>My guess is that Culpepper is the only one who
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>could run sub-25, with
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>Bickford and Kennedy close.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>27:13.98 ..... Meb Keflezighi (Nik) 01
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>27:20.56 ......... Mark Nenow (Pum) 86
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>27:25.61 ..... Alberto Salazar (AW) 82
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>27:29.16 ...... Craig Virgin (FRRT) 80
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>27:31.34 ...... Todd Williams (adi) 95
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>27:33.93 ..... Alan Culpepper (adi) 01
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>27:37.17 .... Bruce Bickford (NBal) 85
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>27:38.37 ........ Bob Kennedy (Nik) 99
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>27:41.05 ........ Ed Eyestone (BYU) 85
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>27:42.83 .... Abdi Abdirahman (Nik) 02
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>Of edndana
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 3:43 PM
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>Malmo -
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>> I can't tell if you agree or disagree with me
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>from your comment.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>I may be wrong, as I am largely basing my
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>observations on the people I
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>ran against in high school and college. Most of
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>the people that knew
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>around my ability (9:50 2-mile in HS, 32:00 10K
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>after college) could do
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>between 24.5 and 25.5 seconds. I've done 25.1 in a
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>race and I am not
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>particularly fast (My best 100m is 12.5 wind
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>aided).
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>So, I can only conclude that guys who are 3-5
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>minutes faster than me
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>at 10K could beat me by a few tenths for the 200m.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>Most of these guys
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>were a lot faster than me in high school as well.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>It just doesn't seem
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>reasomable that the group of guys running 9:00 in
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>high school is not
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>any faster over 200m than the group of guys running
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>9:45 - as a group.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>Now maybe the distance runners slow down over 200m
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>between high school
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>and their mid-20's - I certainly didn't, but I also
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>wasn't doing 100+
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>miles per week of distance training like I should
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>have been.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>- Ed Parrot
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>From: "malmo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>To: "'edndana'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 3:10 PM
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>Subject: RE: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>I'd be a big seller on that claim.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>malmoo
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>Behalf Of edndana
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 1:01 PM
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>Perhaps our 10k guys (and 5k guys) go about
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>training too much like
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>they would for a marathon and don't focus
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>enough on speed. Geb
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>constantly
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>talks
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>about improving his speed. How many of our
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>10k guys can run 24.5
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>flat
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>out let alone at the end of a 10k?
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>Jeez, I'm sure at least 8 of our top 10 10K guys
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>could run 24.5 all
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>out, if not all of them. They may never
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>actually have done so, but
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>I bet nearly all of them could.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>- Ed Parrot
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>_________________________________________________________________
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>advanced parental
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>controls.
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>__________________________________
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>Do you Yahoo!?
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design
> >software
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> > > >>>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>--
> > > >>>> > >>>>Regards,
> > > >>>> > >>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>Martin
> > > >>>> > >>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>>Martin J. Dixon, B. Math. (Hons), C.A.,
> > > >>>> > >>>>Millard Financial Consulting Inc.
> > > >>>> > >>>>P.O. Box 367
> > > >>>> > >>>>96 Nelson Street
> > > >>>> > >>>>Brantford, Ontario
> > > >>>> > >>>>N3T 5N3
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> > > >>>> > >>>>Telephone: (519) 759-3511
> > > >>>> > >>>>Private Facsimile: (519) 759-8548
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> > > >>>> > >>>>
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>>.
> > > >>>> > >>>
> > > >>>> > >>
> > > >>>> > >>
> > > >>>> > > .
> > > >>>> > >
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>_________________________________________________________________
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