I guess(!) the discussion is so complicated, because some people misinterpreted for whatever reason a mini-roundabout with a small roundabout, tagged it as mini and now don't want to fix all their existing tags.
I can understand (but not support) the latter, but I don't understand why we shouldn't tag new minis correctly. Maybe because drawing a circle and tagging it with highway=* and junction=roundabout is more work than simply placing a node and adding highway=mini_roundabout? This might be a reason, but it doesn't make it right. Does a plugin for JOSM exist, which replaces a single node on the connection of two ways, by a circle? Shouldn't be too hard to implement and might convince a few. Martin 2012/5/9 Volker Schmidt <vosc...@gmail.com>: > I don't see why this discussion is so complicated. > OSM tags are based on British English terms for historic reasons. > In that contest there is a clean-cut distinction between a roundabout and a > mini-roundabout: > Quote from Wikipedia: "Mini-roundabouts can be a painted circle or a low > dome but must be fully traversable." (from: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_roundabout#Mini-roundabouts) > A small round-about, that has an obstacle in the middle (example: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pacionfi.JPG), is not a mini_roundabout, > but a roundabout, albeit a small one. > > Volker > (Padova, Itlay) > > > On 9 May 2012 04:10, Steve Bennett <stevag...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> The problems with this tag are the same with most tags. The history >> goes something like: >> >> 1) The original creator has a very specific real-world object in mind: >> painted roundabout patterns on intersections in their local area >> 2) Other people in the local area recognise this real-world concept >> and also apply the tag. >> 3) Soon it makes its way into editors, renderers etc. >> 4) People in other parts of the world see this tag and think they should >> use it. >> 5) They deduce what they think are the salient features: it's small, >> it's painted, you can drive over it physically, you can drive over it >> legally... >> 6) Different kinds of real world objects get mapped with the tag, that >> include some, but not all of the above salient features (eg, >> roundabouts you can drive over, but are physically raised; or >> roundabouts that are just painted but legally you must not drive over >> them...) >> 7) People notice the contradiction between the (poor) documentation >> and current practice, and try to change it >> 8) People who used the tag in step 6 object, because now it doesn't >> match the way *they* use the tag. >> >> I'm not sure what the moral of the story here is, except that whoever >> creates the tag originally has the easiest job, because the tags match >> up beautifully with their local environment. (See highway=footway, >> highway=cycleway, highway=bridleway, which actually appear as words on >> signs in the UK - but compare the difficulty of applying them to >> somewhere like Australia) >> >> I kind of think the only real solution is to have a fairly loose >> coupling between regions about the definition of tags, and tight >> cohesion within regions. So highway=mini_roundabout should universally >> mean something like "small roundabout you could probably drive over", >> but within a single region (either a country, or perhaps smaller), it >> should have a much stricter definition, depending on local road laws, >> building practices etc. >> >> (We do this already with tags like highway=motorway and >> highway=cycleway, but we could be much more systematic.) >> >> Steve >> >> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:18 AM, Erik Johansson <erjo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 11:54 PM, Philip Barnes <p...@trigpoint.me.uk> >> > wrote: >> >> On Mon, 2012-05-07 at 13:30 -0700, Paul Johnson wrote: >> >>> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Nathan Mills <nat...@nwacg.net> wrote: >> >>> > So this is not/should not be a mini_roundabout? It seems a little >> >>> > silly to >> >>> > call it anything else, since the city just dug a hole in the center >> >>> > of the >> >>> > existing intersection, built a circular curb, and planted a tree: >> >>> > >> >>> > http://g.co/maps/e2gsv >> >>> > >> >>> > What about this one? Also a full on roundabout? >> >>> > >> >>> > http://g.co/maps/d6n74 >> >>> > >> >>> > This looks more like a roundabout to me: >> >>> > >> >>> > http://g.co/maps/hnbp9 >> >>> >> >>> All three are roundabouts, yes. >> >> All 3 are roundabouts, none of them a mini-roundabouts. >> >> >> >> The point of a mini-roundabout is that they can be driven over, hence >> >> whilst cars are supposed to go around them and many are 'speed-hump >> >> raised' to encourage this behaviour. Trucks can pass over them as many >> >> are in places where a truck cannot get around otherwise. >> >> >> >> The first 2 should be mini-roundabouts, as a truck is likely to have >> >> serious issues with them. I cannot imagine that tree will last too >> >> long. >> >> >> >> This is a mini-roundabout, which you can see is raised slightly >> >> http://g.co/maps/hm49m >> >> Actually its part of the magic roundabout, which is a roundabout you >> >> can >> >> go around in either direction, and at each intersection there is a >> >> mini-roundabout. On osm its here, http://osm.org/go/eumbs5ZIw-- >> >> >> >> Phil >> > >> > >> > But Nathan does have a point, mini-roundabouts are not a specifically >> > good name, and the current docs will only make more people tag small >> > roundabouts as highway=mini_roundabouts.. >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > /emj >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Tagging mailing list >> > Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
