On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 at 17:03, Volker Schmidt <vosc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My gard stone example on a building corne > <https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/YNhbgcyBHpYAhqatX0CwSF>is also useful > for this part of the discussion. I know the place well and I know the local > amateur history expert, and we talked about this specific stone, and also > asked about its historic value. > I'm sorry, I'm having trouble spotting it at that link, is it by the gate? > It is anywhere between 100 and a couple of hundred years old. It is on a > building the walls of which may have many hundreds of years. So it's > historical and as it's the only guard stone in that part of the city, it's > most likely also historic, not because in itself it is historic, but it's a > historical marker, as we are not good at keeping historic buildings of > minor importance. The next building down the road, (which BTW may well be > of Roman origin as it used to lead straight to the historic city center of > Roman Patavium) was a tavern with several hundred years of confirmed > history, but was torn down about ten years ago to make place for a new > private house. So my personal opinion is that it is historic, even though > most likely 99% of the locals have never noticed it. > > On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 at 15:15, Paul Allen <pla16...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 at 09:56, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdre...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> I am not saying that these stones should or not get a historic tag, but >>> surely it isn’t an argument that one of the OpenStreetMap based maps >>> highlights things based on a wildcard selection. >>> >> >> Not an argument, merely a piece of evidence to consider. >> >> >>> If this tag would pose a problem for their rendering I am sure they >>> would adjust the selection rules. >>> >> >> Or perhaps we should not force them to adjust their selection rules by >> abusing >> "historic" to mean "old." We have start_date=* to specify that things >> are old. >> >>> >>> Regarding “historic means historic as in the battle of Waterloo or the >>> pyramids of Gizeh”, we have seen from previous discussion that this was a >>> minority opinion. >>> >> >> An explanation, by one person, of what the wiki page says and the >> distinction >> between "historic" and "historical." Those do not mean the same thinhg, >> however much you wish them to. >> >> On the one hand we have the wiki page, the distinction between >> "historic" and "historical" and a map with the sole purpose of >> rendering historic, rather than historical, objects. On the other >> hand we have people who insist that "historic" means "historical." >> >> Many people see historic as a keyword for objects that typically could be >>> seen as historic, but then includes any objects of the class, without >>> further differentiating them by “historic value”. >>> >> >> Many people do not read the wiki page. Many people do not understand >> the distinction between "historic" and "historical." >> >>> >>> We do not have different tags for truly historic wayside shrines or >>> crosses and others. How many charcoal piles do you expect to be of >>> exceptional historic value? >>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/historic#values >>> >> >> I would expect a handful, at most, not the tens of thousands that have >> been >> mapped. Those SHOULD have been mapped with a lifecycle prefix. But >> people who don't understand the difference between "historic" and >> "historical" and don't read the wiki misuse historic=* then document it. >> >>> >>> For guard stones I could imagine using the man_made key as well, but >>> historic would seem to work because most of these are giving testimony of >>> former times. >>> >> >> "Historic" does not mean "historical." Those stones are historical but >> they are not historic. If you want to emphasise that they are old, >> start_date=* is the way to go. >> >> -- >> Paul >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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