Hi folks, thanks for a very interesting discussion. It was great to hear from people who don’t often pipe up on the forum. Whilst it started off informative and insightful, it didn’t take long to reach into rhetoric about Russia and guns/maps don’t kill people ... neither of which is particularly helpful.
The original issue is clearly very important, so can I ask a much more basic question.... what text should we add to the Australian Tagging Guidelines, which give no guidance on the matter? The proportion of mappers who read the guidelines may be small but must be much larger than those who read this listserve. If the outcome of this discussion isn’t consolidated I for one would see this a somewhat wasted opportunity. Best wishes Ian > On 23 Oct 2020, at 9:12 pm, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-au > <talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > > > > > > 23 Oct 2020, 11:59 by fors...@ozonline.com.au: > A licence condition for data users is that they have a public policy for the > Don'tRender tag > 'That is fortunately impossible' why is it impossible? > Technically it is possible but it would require license > change that would be problematic > both from legal viewpoint (making such rule effective > would be tricky at best) > and unlikely to be accepted by osm community. > > It is not impossible as in "can be established > with math proof to be illogically and therefore impossible" > but impossible as in "I will stop conflict in > Middle East by posting on Twitter'. > > 'Note that deleting existing paths with "I do not want them rendered" is not > an acceptable edit' > I don't think anybody suggested it was. > This "solution" regularly appears in such > topics about illegal or unwanted paths. > 'Russia does not get to decide whatever their military bases can be mapped > and rendered in OSM.' > Nobody said that Russia should should be able to > It was just proposed that owners or operator > of an area would be able to suppress > rendering of objects there. > > Its a point for discussion. What do you think should happen? > Paths existing but illegal to use should > be marked and tagged with access tags. > > Path destroyed should be deleted from OSM. > > Paths but existing should not be mapped in OSM. > > Why single out Russia? > AFAIK they have laws forbidding mapping > locations of military bases. > > PS thanks Steve for your second email. > thanks Phil for your clarification on 'illegal' > > Tony > > > > Oct 23, 2020, 10:18 by fors...@ozonline.com.au: > I am not morally responsible if an ex partner kills a woman in a women's > refuge, he is, but I won't knowingly contribute to the process. And it > doesn't wash with me to say they should put a guard at the door because I > have mapped a refuge. > Not mapping ones that are private and not signed falls under not mapping > private info. > > See > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Limitations_on_mapping_private_information > for an attempt to gather consensus opinion. > Re access=no, if I recollect correctly they still display in OSM, only > slightly more red. > This changed, now they display greish (less prominent) > > You probably wouldn't notice. I haven't checked data users such as Osmand and > Strava. > Any decent router will not route over them. > Graeme > Thanks for your thoughts on 'how to'. I have given it some thought and don't > have any really good answers. Please think of a better scheme. > > I mentioned a Don'tRender=yes tag but worry it may be too complicated for the > benefit that results but here goes: > > a land owner or manager can add a Don'tRender=yes tag > OSM.org map would honour the tag in map mode > This is a bad idea. > A licence condition for data users is that they have a public policy for the > Don'tRender tag > That is fortunately impossible. > > By having the item visible at edit time it eliminates the cycle of addition > and deletion and edit wars. > You can do that by mapping line and tagging it with note. > > Note that deleting existing paths with "I do not want them rendered" is not > an acceptable edit. > Let the mapping community decide whether the claim to be a land owner or > manager is credible, if two organisations have credible claim to that then > Don'tRender=disputed > Russia does not get to decide whatever their military bases can be mapped and > rendered in OSM. > > I knowingly and deliberately violated > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_data_in_China > by mapping objects in China. > > _____________________________________________________ > This mail has been virus scanned by Australia On Line > see http://www.australiaonline.net.au/mailscanning > _______________________________________________ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
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