On 14/8/21 4:45 pm, Michael Collinson wrote:
I've added my comments below Andrew's. Hope that is not too messy. /Mike
On 2021-08-14 03:59, Andrew Harvey wrote:
On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 at 09:12, Tom Brennan <webs...@ozultimate.com
<mailto:webs...@ozultimate.com>> wrote:
Like my previous post on sidewalks, this one is also from walking
and
cycling all of the streets of my LGA (Willoughby). The other area
where
tagging seems to me to be a bit messy is:
highway=service
This messiness may be more of a general OSM issue than
specifically an
Australian one!
Where possible I've been trying to add a service=? tag to define
these
better, in line with the relevant pages on the wiki. In my area, the
majority of these seem to be:
1. laneways between houses -> service=alley
For me these are part of the official road network, but in
Willoughby
they are normally narrow, and lead to/past people's garages. This
one
seems relatively clear cut - and also appears to be the only
service tag
that does relate to the official road network(?)
Yeah I'd agree, but these are part of the public road network, they
are just lesser importance roads because they are mostly for access
to the rear of houses.
+1. And in the US and northern UK may be poorly maintained, cobbled,
temporarily obstructed etc, a good flag to routers.
In Willoughby and other parts of Australia these may have been for
'night soil service' where the man came to empty the outhouse.
They mostly were council property .. some have been converted into
private property.
Some have no known owner! The council does not want to proceed to court
for back rates as then they would take possession and be liable for
maintenance.
2. driveways (private property) -> service=driveway + access=private
This seems pretty clear cut in residential areas. It also seems
fairly
clear for small business/industrial property that are for
employees/business vehicles only.
Where it gets a bit confusing is if the driveway is to something
else.
For example, in the Willoughby area, there are many industrial
complexes
which have "driveways". But if it leads to parking
(amenity=parking?),
is it still a driveway, or is it just highway=service without
service=*.
The access=* issues also interplays with this - because in larger
industrial complexes there may be a mix of access=private and
access=customers.
Can you post examples? In my opinion, a good rule of thumb for
driveway is where you need to turn off the road and cross the
footpath. I realise it's not always clear though.
Example Way: 558245891. Some of these can be 'open to customers',
otherwise private. Personally I would not tag them unless I knew, and
even then it can change with new tenants.
Technically only the section inside the front fence is private, the
section between the footpath and road is public but I've never mapped
to this level of detail.
Personally, I ONLY use driveway for residential driveways. I feel
using it for anything else is confusing and adds no value - despite
what Map Features says. Like Andrew, I rarely split the sections into
private and public sections but it IS useful for foot and wheelchair
routing.
3. parking areas
This one can also be a bit confusing - following the wiki, some
of these
end up being service=parking_aisle, but others are without
service=* eg:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/-33.80928/151.20897
<https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=19/-33.80928/151.20897>
I imagine you can do in theory do an area query to establish
highway=service within amenity=parking, but this does seem clunky!
And not that we should be mapping for the renderer, but the
rendering
also seems inconsistent:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/-33.80939/151.20923
<https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/-33.80939/151.20923>
If you can turn from the way directly into a parking spot, then it
should be parking aisle, so that one I think should be parking aisle.
Slightly different view here. I find that most car parks have
"arterial" ways for ingress/exit, navigation within larger parks, and
sometimes very local through "destination" traffic; obvious from
design or width. I don't put a parking_aisle on these. I think leads
to better map presentation and routing. In Melbourne, I find that many
car park service roads double up as useful bicycle connectors.
At least some of those "arterial" ways also have parking alongside them.
I would still mark those as parking aisle. Where there is not adjacent
parking then 'unclassified' would be my choice.
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