Hi Tony & List There are differences in the areas of application of road safety law to off road footpaths between NSW and Victoria. This was noted in a discussion on this same topic last year [talk-au] Cycling on Victorian paths (openstreetmap.org) <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2021-October/015075.html>
Vic road rules apply in roads and road related areas – see rules 11-13. https://www.legislation.vic.gov.au/in-force/statutory-rules/road-safety-road-rules-2017/014H Footpaths and nature strips adjacent to roads are considered a road related areas and are subject to the footpath cycling restrictions in those areas. There is no provision in the Victorian Road Rules that I can find to extend Victorian road rules to all unmarked (I.e. the vast majority) off-road and unsealed paths in Victoria away from roads. The Rules that Sebastian refers to do not apply by my understanding. Whereas NSW Road Safety Law includes a provision to expand the definition of "Road Related Area" to any public space which has it's primary purpose for use by pedestrians. The Victorian rules do not have that provision. Other users with Town Planning professional expertise have noted that for general paths the absence of express signage permitting cycling cannot be taken to mean that cycling is prohibited on those paths. The local council is the relevant authority for nearly all footpaths in Victoria, but the cycling signage is somtimes missing, not maintained or in some cases never installed. Some common sense is required. Whilst I support a number of Sebastian's changes on footpaths that are adjacent to roads, I do not support his approach on off road paths or paths not immediately adjacent to roads. In many cases I don't believe that Sebastian has established a sufficient basis to determine that cycling is prohibited on the paths where he has been modifying on OSM. I share the view of a number of other mappers that the absence of signage permitting cycling on off-road paths (those not adjacent to roads) is not sufficient evidence to remove previously established cycling permissions from OSM. Regards Matthew On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 6:08 PM <fors...@ozonline.com.au> wrote: > Hi Sebastian Azagra, > > Thank you for joining in the discussions. Michael Collinson wrote "I > continue to welcome him (Sebastian) in our OSM community". I second > that. Though I have some problems with your bicycle edits, I am very > appreciative of the hard work you do to support OSM. > > I have feedback from Ewen Hill, Michael Collinson, Graeme Fitzpatrick, > Ian Steer and Warin which appear to support my position. Only Ben > Kelley might support Sebastian's position, he writes "In NSW by > default it is not allowed (unless signpost as a shared path). I assume > Victoria is the same". > > Ben, I would like to ask you some additional questions to tease out > your opinions. You are more familiar with NSW law, I am happy for you > to assume Victorian and NSW law to be the same for the purposes of > this discussion. > > 1) Was Sebastian justified in removing bicycle=yes from way 1008258040 ? > 2) Are no signs present to indicated bikes are permitted sufficient > evidence that bicycles are disallowed? > 3) For the following 3 examples assume there is no signage, would > addition of bicycle=no or deletion of bicycle=yes be justified? > > 3a) A typical footpath in the sidewalk sense: > > > https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-37.896764706666&lng=145.28943507&z=17&pKey=428476962255750&focus=photo > > 3b) A path with almost no access to residental properties, parallel > with a freeway or arterial road: > > > https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-37.99755833333299&lng=145.16624444444005&z=17&pKey=469416987632807&focus=photo > > 3c) A path not associated with a road: > > > https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-37.924151150055&lng=145.32763449&z=17&pKey=494613405004623&focus=photo > > Thanks > Tony > > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au >
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