In Belgium, a towpath is a legal designation (eg. designation=towpath), NOT something you can derive really from ground truth. Towpaths as suchs do physically not exist anymore: the distance between the path and the river is nowadays sometimes more then 50 m, the towpath is physically on a dike, or sometimes even perpendicular to the river...
Op di 3 mrt. 2020 om 21:09 schreef Marc Gemis <marc.ge...@gmail.com>: > As we map what is on the ground, we do not have to care about that, I > would assume. Let someone else fight with the people that place the signs. > > m > > Op di 3 mrt. 2020 20:10 schreef Steven Clays <steven.cl...@gmail.com>: > >> To make it more complex, not every signposted towpath in Flanders is >> legally a towpath. Check >> http://www.start2boat.be/vaaropleiding/downloads/reglementen/Bijzondere%20reglementen.pdf >> >> Op di 3 mrt. 2020 om 19:38 schreef Stijn Rombauts via Talk-be < >> talk-be@openstreetmap.org>: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> 'Jaagpaden' are not always paved roads. Often compacted, gravel, >>> earthen, grassy, ... roads/tracks and then highway=track seems a better >>> choice. Sometimes the only thing that's left is just a path. Then the tag >>> service=towpath is rather odd. I use description=jaagpad. >>> And what about similar roads which usually have the same access >>> restrictions but are called 'haven' or 'havengebied' instead of 'jaagpad'? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> StijnRR >>> >>> >>> Op dinsdag 3 maart 2020 16:28:46 CET schreef Pieter Vander Vennet < >>> pieterv...@posteo.net>: >>> >>> >>> Hey Marc, >>> >>> Thanks for your response. >>> >>> IMHO all towpaths are indeed peculiar service roads, thus >>> 'highway=service' + 'service=towpath'. The wiki even mentions explicitly >>> that it should be a service road. >>> >>> The examples you sent are excellent examples where the legal signposting >>> didn't catch up with the historic usage. These clearly used to be >>> towpath but they didn't gain the legal recognition of a 'jaagpad'. >>> Personally, I would tag those with 'service=towpath' (reflecting the >>> historic usage) but not with 'towpath=yes', but this is very subject to >>> change. We might even consider `towpath=no` (with a note clarifying this >>> is legally _not_ a 'jaagpad') or `legal:towpath=no` or something similar. >>> >>> Another thought: if we are about using 'towpath=yes' to reflect the >>> legal status, I'm doubting that there is no better tag scheme for this. >>> >>> >>> Kind regards, Pieter >>> >>> >>> On 03.03.20 16:12, Marc Gemis wrote: >>> > I'm fine with explicitly mapping them. >>> > Isn't service=towpath strange on a way that is not tagged as >>> > highway=service? (but you know that I think they should have been >>> > mapped as highway=service in the first place, but this is not the >>> > case) >>> > >>> > So it's meant for all those that are explicitly signed as "Jaagpad" >>> > and not for any others? So this >>> > https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/3T0U_uBJxNXHfrgwdztQDQ is not a >>> > Jaagpad? (a bit further >>> > >>> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=51.05439739997222&lng=4.4334043&z=17&focus=photo&pKey=cmVJ5z_VXnZqwsdrEK0aHw >>> > , but that still does not make it a Jaadpad?) >>> > >>> > m. >>> > >>> > On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 2:14 PM Pieter Vander Vennet >>> > <pieterv...@posteo.net> wrote: >>> >> Hello everyone, >>> >> >>> >> Even though the legal restrictions of 'Jaagpaden' (towpaths in proper >>> English) is already described in detail on the wiki, it would still be >>> useful to reflect the special status explicitly, in our case to give a >>> comfort bonus in cycling route planning but also for historical purposes. >>> >> >>> >> For context, a 'jaagpad', 'trekpad' or towing path is a path that >>> used to be used to (literally) tow boats through the canals, either with >>> manpower or horsepower and a rope attached to the boat - hence there are >>> never trees between a towpath. >>> >> >>> >> With the rise of cheap and powerful combustion engines, this practice >>> became disused and towpaths became service roads and cycleways. >>> >> >>> >> As stated, these often are excellent and heavily preferred by >>> cyclists. Normally, they are wide, asphalted, there are very few cars and >>> especially: there is the very nice scenery of the canal. >>> >> >>> >> Therefore, I would propose to introduce tagging in Belgium to tag >>> towpaths. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> There are two ways to achieve this: >>> >> >>> >> - A towpath is typically a specific type of service road, so we can >>> add `service=towpath` >>> >> >>> >> - In the UK, the towpaths are tagged with `towpath=yes` >>> >> >>> >> Note that towpaths in Flanders are mostly signposted with an official >>> sign, even though that this is a bit of a legal remnant of a previous era. >>> However, it makes it very explicit and thus unambiguous to map. >>> >> >>> >> But now, for the serious questions: >>> >> >>> >> - what are your thoughts of mapping them somehow? IMHO it is an added >>> value and I'm quite in favour of them. >>> >> >>> >> - What is the best way of mapping them? I'm a bit on the edge of the >>> options above: `service=towpath` is IMHO semantically the most correct >>> form, as it indicates that it is a service road originally built for >>> towing. `towpath=yes` reeks more of the legal status (i.e. having a formal >>> road sign indicating 'jaagpad'). The latter has the advantage of already >>> being in use in the UK with over 3500 instances according to taginfo. >>> service=towpath is not in use at the moment. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> PS: fun etymological fact: the English verb 'to tow' is derived from >>> the Dutch word for rope: 'touw' >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Met vriendelijke groeten, >>> >> Pieter Vander Vennet >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Talk-be mailing list >>> >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org >>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Talk-be mailing list >>> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org >>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Met vriendelijke groeten, >>> Pieter Vander Vennet >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Talk-be mailing list >>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Talk-be mailing list >>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Talk-be mailing list >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be >> > _______________________________________________ > Talk-be mailing list > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be >
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