Hi Daniel and James,
Sounds good, Daniel. Looking forward to see your tool. However, the Open
Building Database data for Montreal looks pretty good in terms of number
of nodes and orthogonalization. I am still working on how to break up
the building blocks, however, with much less time on my hand than you
seem to have. I will keep you posted as soon as I had some success.
Thanks, James, for your kind offer. If we decide to import, which we
will discuss on the local list first, we then will provide an import
plan and will get back to for the technical implementation of providing
the tiles on the tasking manager.
I suggest, we continue this conversation on the Montréal list
(challenging my French capabilities).
Tim
On 2019-03-04 19:48, James wrote:
I could serve the output using the microdataservice and the osncanada
task manager(multiple tasks)
https://github.com/osmottawa/micro-data-service
On Mon., Mar. 4, 2019, 7:16 p.m. Begin Daniel, <jfd...@hotmail.com
<mailto:jfd...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Tim, ____
I have plenty of free time and I am interested in this import. I am
about to complete a pre-processing tool that seems to
“orthogonalize” building footprints pretty well using FME (safe
software). I plan to present/discuss its functionalities next week
on this list (vertex filtering, ensuring right angles, sorting
building according to processing results, etc.). I have not examined
how to break up building blocks into single units yet but I am
interested to include it in the pre-processing tool if it is
possible.____
__ __
Daniel____
__ __
*From:*Tim Elrick [mailto:o...@elrick.de <mailto:o...@elrick.de>]
*Sent:* Saturday, March 02, 2019 19:58
*To:* talk-ca@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
*Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] Microsoft has released its building
outlines for Canada____
__ __
Hi Steve,____
__ __
As for Montreal: We will create an import plan on the wiki as soon
as we have expanded the discussion about the Montreal import from
our local face-to-face group to the Montreal OSM list and agreed on
importing. Before we do this, we wanted to test the feasibility of
the pre-processing first, as it involves quite some postgis coding
to break up the building blocks into single buildings. Only
thereafter, we will suggest an import (or not), depending on the
feasibility of extracting single buildings. Otherwise we will follow
the hand-drawn approach as usual (and as it is done on a daily basis
at the moment by a couple of OSMappers).____
__ __
The Microsoft data set might still be useful for remote areas. Let's
explore this altogether.____
__ __
Cheers,____
Tim____
__ __
On 2019-03-02 19:17, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:____
On Mar 2, 2019, at 3:47 PM, John Whelan<jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
<mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com> wrote:____
Two years ago a group of Toronto mappers submitted the City of
Toronto Open Data license to the LWG to see if it was acceptable. I
assume they meant to import things such as building outlines. I also
assumed as I think others did that this meant Toronto mappers were happy
to import the City of Toronto's data especially as it was discussed on
talk-ca first.____
Historical info is appreciated for context, however, the LWG found
Canada-wide city-by-city submissions for ODbL-compliance burdensome,
given LWG's limited bandwidth. Assuming about events in the past is
unhelpful, first because it is assuming (seldom helpful) and second,
these events are in the past. How Toronto imported (building) data
can't really help us first understand and second improve from what we
learn until we know what we learned. That isn't presented here, but it
could be.____
__ __
More recently Nate who currently lives in Toronto feels that
this should be discussed once more in Toronto to work out what is
desired etc.____
I agree with Nate. Perhaps first in Toronto, perhaps wider in
talk-ca. "Once more" seems limiting, though it's possible it could
suffice.____
__ __
Tim I think is organising Montreal open data import.____
Please consider adding this (and links to user: wiki or Talk pages)
to the active Import wiki. Generate communication using our media!____
__ __
I note that Nate and Tim have different ideas about what should
be imported. One is happy with bay windows and I think the other feels
they should be removed.____
More discussion often yields consensus, especially as it "goes
wide" (or as wide as is practical).____
__ __
We also have Pierre who is unhappy because the imported
building outlines available have too many corners that are not right
angles.____
More discussion often yields consensus.____
__ __
The local Ottawa mappers are content with their Open Data
import and find the data quality acceptable even though Pierre has
expressed reservations about it.____
More discussion often yields consensus. Wide area (large cities,
province-wide, nationwide) imports are not easy to achieve consensus but
can often reach something approaching one as data are entered, not
liked, improved, liked better, et cetera. These are often an
interactive, iterative process.____
__ __
Someone in Manitoba? mentioned there were no building outlines
released for Manitoba? I apologise if I have the province name wrong.____
It is spelled correctly. I am not Canadian and I know that; it
isn't hard to spell-check Manitoba.____
__ __
So we have a mixture of expectations which is only to be
expected in a large group.____
More discussion often yields consensus. It might be part "mixture
of expectations" but I'm sure that everyone will agree that "high
quality data entering OSM" is expected. What can be difficult is "what
do we mean by high quality?" (in addition to establishing and
communicating clear goals for the importation of the data).____
__ __
Microsoft's Open Data provides another source of Open Data
which might meet Pierre's data quality expectations. They may meet
Nate's. All provinces and Territories now have Open Data building
outlines available.____
OK, thanks for the clarification that a "union" of these datasets
(Stats Canada-produced building data + Microsoft-produced building data)
provide an "all provinces and Territories dataset." That truly is
helpful as it makes it clear that "if Set A doesn't have your province's
or Territory's building data, Set B will."____
__ __
Northwest Territories, Nunavut, and Yukon have populations of
around 35,000 people. Realistically I don't think they have a group of
local OSM mappers.____
Please don't "write them off" so easily. Not only does it seem
"not nice," it may not be true. A better approach may be to actively
develop community there, difficult as that might seem. I believe there
is usually Internet available there in the villages (sometimes via
clever and state-of-the-art methodologies) and it may be as simple as
"shaking the trees" of the right people, then "they'll take it from
there."____
__ __
Essentially the problem now we no longer have a Canada wide
consensus on what is acceptable____
More discussion often yields consensus.____
__ __
...appears to be how do you identify local mappers across
Canada and how far away can a "local" mapper be to be considered local
since it is the local mappers who make the decision about what is
acceptable and I think it is they who have to drive the import process.____
There are no such "hard and fast" rules as this. I think you're on
the right track that "hinterland" (I do not mean that disparagingly,
rather more like "far away from others") OSM volunteers "drive the
import process," so I again encourage you and others to "better develop"
this community and let them, teach them, encourage them to "do what they
will."____
__ __
I'm sure if a local group would like to contact me we can find
resources to assist them if required.____
Excellent that you volunteer to be a "point person." While it's
important that people "step up" like that, wider, open communication
(here in talk-ca, the wiki page, the wiki's Discussion tab / talk
page...) is also to be encouraged. In short, you can't cast the net too
wide, so be broad in the reach to do so. De-centralize while developing
both breadth and width (the whole country, at province-wide and
city/vllage-wide levels) as well as "experts/consultants who are
available" to answer questions and provide directional guidance and
technical assistance. Good luck!____
__ __
SteveA____
California____
___________________________________________________
Talk-ca mailing list____
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>____
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca____
__ __
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