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2018-01-14 20:53 GMT+01:00 Leif Lodahl <leiflod...@gmail.com>: > Hi Frederik, > I can understand that Michael contacted you regarding my edits. That is > the reason I reaised the matter here on the Danish mailing list. Please > note that Michael did not use this list before I openned the question. I > also beleive that we are able so solve things our selves in the local > community. > > I can understand that you haven't read earlier posting where we have > discussed the insulting language Michael is using in his comments. Comments > that from my oppinion is scaring away especially new mappers. We need new > mappers and comment in such language is not motivating for new members of > the community. > > It is obvious that you have the impression that I'm not willing to listen. > Thats a wrong impression and a glanse down this list will show that I have > asked questions when I was in doubt. When Michaels comments has become too > insulting for me, I have also asked for help on the list as descriped in > the code of conduct. > > I have several years of experience in free software and free data > communities, and what I have learned is to listen. If you look at this > thread Michael is the one that doesn't listen. Every body else agrees that > I'm allowed to do what I'm doing. If you read the terms and conditions, the > agency of cultural enheritance actually encourages people and companies to > use their data. > > In my and many other community members, there is no doubt that my mapping > is legal. Every body else than Michael considers this whole discussion a > waste of time. > > Even though, I have today asked the agency to answer the question wheater > I'm allowed to use their data set to manually map the cultural artifacts. > Until then I will continue my work. > > Cheers, > Leif Lodahl > > 2018-01-14 19:55 GMT+01:00 Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org>: > >> Hi, >> >> I've used Google Translate to read this discussion. The important >> points I wish to comment on are: >> >> 1. Leif uses data from "kulturarv.dk" to add information to OSM. He ask >> others to leave him alone, and not interfere with his mapping. >> >> 2. Michael doubts that this is a legal use of the data, and also claims >> that Leif's edits have been occasionally detrimental to OSM data quality >> ("Du ændrer f.eks.ofte på ting som jeg tidligere har lavet og ikke altid >> til det bedre."). >> >> 3. Soren says that data is made publicly available in order for us to >> use it ("#1 at de skal bruges og sættes i spil"). >> >> I agree that this seems to be neither an import nor a mechanical edit, >> because Leif claims that he calls up each place individually in the >> editor. But, if Michael is right, then Leif does engage in "armchair >> editing" and Leif believes that his data source is superior, making >> changes where perhaps the local mappers know better. I cannot judge this >> becasue I don't know the situation, but Leif should certainly respect >> data contributed by local mappers, and aim not to break anything. >> >> The main point here, in my opinion, is the license question. The use of >> kulturarv.dk must be stopped immediately, until it is 100% clear that >> they are ok with their data being used on OpenStreetMap. This requires: >> >> * either that their web site clearly says the data is public domain (or >> some similar text) >> >> * or we get a message from them that says "yes, you can use our data to >> improve OpenStreetMap". >> >> In copyright law, the default is "you are not allowed to use it". So if >> there's no clear message that says yes, then it's no. >> >> It is wrong to assume, like Soren does, that any data made public by the >> government or a cultural organisation on a web site is automatically >> free for us to use; there could be many reasons why they might want to >> allow the public to see things on their web site, but they do not want >> someone to use the data on OpenStreetMap where it might not even be >> obvious where the data comes from and where the data is redistributed. >> At OpenStreetMap, we are very conservative with the data licensing - if >> we cannot be 100% sure that the data is ok to use, then we DO NOT USE >> IT. We don't discuss what the owner of the data might have wanted or not >> - we ask them, and if the response is not a clear yes, then for us it is >> a no. >> >> If it should turn out that kulturarv.dk does not allow us to use their >> data, then all 10,000 edits made by Leif will have to be removed. >> >> Soren also mentions the SDFE imagery and asks if that is ok to use in >> OSM. I have no idea - but for the imagery, the same rules count as for >> data. There must be a clear "yes", else it's a "no". The fact that >> certain imagery is available in iD and JOSM does not necessarily mean it >> has been cleared for use in OSM - both editors use repositories that >> everyone can contribute to, and to my knowledge neither the JOSM not the >> iD development team have good enough knowledge of Danish to actually >> review the license pages first-hand. >> >> One final point. Leif feels harassed by other community members who >> check what he's doing ("nogen der er på nakken af mig hele tiden"). I >> understand that it can be stressful if one's actions are watched; but >> here in OpenStreetMap, we all want the map to be good AND we want >> OpenStreetMap's image to be good. Even today, some commercial map >> vendors say: "Ugh, OpenStreetMap is full of piracy and stolen map data, >> don't use it, it is illegal..." - of course that's wrong, and people >> just say it so they can sell their "clean" data better, but this is an >> example why we must be extremely careful with copyright. We do not want >> to give anyone a reason to say: OSM is a pirated map. And therefore, we >> must watch what others are doing, and if someone makes the map worse, or >> risks to ruin our good image by using data that is not suitably >> licensed, it is everyone's duty to prevent that from happening. >> >> Bye >> Frederik >> >> -- >> Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Talk-dk mailing list >> Talk-dk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-dk >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-dk mailing list > Talk-dk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-dk > >
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