On 26 Feb 2010, at 18:54, Colin Smale wrote:
I applied to KCC for permission to use data from their Highways
Gazetteer in OSM. They have approved on the condition that the data
is attributed to them. My request and their official reply are
below. What this gives us is an authorititave source for road
numbering and classification in Kent (excluding Medway), although it
does require a little bit of thinking as there are no coordinates,
only road and place names. So for example we take Whitehill Road and
Highcross Road between Longfield and Bean [1] the Gazetteer makes
clear that these roads are still officially the B255, even though
the signs have not revealed this for years. For the attribution they
require I intend to use source:ref=kent.gov.uk.
Which brings me to a dilemma: If a road is ostensibly one type but
officially another, how should this be tagged? Both are
"verifiable." Traditionally the official classification takes
precedence - otherwise the single-track A-roads in the Scottish
highlands and islands might better be tagged as as "track" in some
cases... The Wiki [2] specifically refers to the Administrative
classifications.
We have had this problem in Ipswich. A local mapper did some research
and identify a number of roads which we apparently still B roads even
though some were now dead-end service roads down to the docks or other
very minor roads. We decided to go more on the appearance of the road
and signs on highway to avoid historical anomalies confusing routers
and making the map look weird. Road classifications in OSM for the
town are now partly based on the real classification (where it makes
sense) and partly based on the level of traffic, width and general
usefulness as through routes.
Have references for C roads is very handy though given that they are
used by official people but aren't marked on the highway at all as far
as I can see.
Well done for sourcing that stuff!
Peter
Another use of this Gazetteer is to arbitrate between road classes,
particularly between tertiary (i.e. C-roads) and unclassified, where
there is mostly no visible difference "on the ground". That throws
up the odd anomaly as well: New Ash Green [3] got its very own
bypass in the seventies, which is single carriageway but very wide.
The much smaller original "main road" which goes through the village
still retains the "C" classification, and the relatively enormous
bypass is still "unclassified".
It occurred to the cynic in me that the lengths of roads of various
classes might be fed into some spreadsheet in Whitehall to calculate
some kind of grant to the local councils, giving them an interest in
keeping the administrative classifications as "high" as possible,
despite downgrading them on the ground. But that's unlikely to be
true of course.
Colin Smale
[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.40868&lon=0.2965&zoom=15&layers=B000FTF
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Highway
[3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.3665&lon=0.30171&zoom=15&layers=B000FTF
=========================
Dear Sirs,
I am one of an army of volunteers who collectively are producing and
maintaining "openstreetmap.org" ( http://www.openstreetmap.org/ ), a
crowd-sourced map of the world under the CC-BY-SA (Creative Commons by
Share-Alike) licence ( http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/
2.0/ ), with which you may be familiar.
Having found the KCC Highways Gazetteer, I would like to request
your permission to use and republish certain information contained
in this document by incorporating it in OpenStreetMap.
One of the problems we frequently face is that the official category
of a road (or segment thereof) is not always immediately obvious "on
the ground". I would like to use this document to classify (minor)
roads correctly as (for example distinguishing between
"unclassified" and "tertiary"), add the official road number, and
possibly its status as a private (unadopted) street. The Highways
Gazetteer contains no location information (other than place names)
and therefore is probably unencumbered by Ordnance Survey
restrictions, which would render the data unusable in the CC-BY-SA
licence model. The alignment of the road will still be surveyed "on
the ground", but thereafter the Gazetteer will be used to classify
the road correctly as mentioned.
Yours sincerely,
Colin Smale
=========================
Dear Mr Smale,
Further to your request for information relating to re-use of
information from the Kent Highways Gazetteer, because the
information you have requested falls under the scope of the Freedom
of Information Act (FoIA) and is information held within the
Environment, Highways & Waste Directorate (the directorate), your
request has been forwarded to me so that I can co-ordinate the
response on behalf of the directorate. This is to comply with
procedures that the County Council has for dealing with all FoIA
requests.
You ask the Council:
Having found the KCC Highways Gazetteer, I would like to request
your permission to use and republish certain information contained
in this document by incorporating it in OpenStreetMap
Although the response below has been sent from me, I have liaised
with Kent Highway Services who have provided the following in answer
to your request:
Kent County Council are willing to allow the information in the
Highway Gazetteer to be used for the purpose of Open Street Map on
the proviso that we receive confirmation that the data source is
kent.gov.uk.
=========================
On 03/01/2010 12:36, Colin Smale wrote:
While searching the internet for arbitration in a case where "local
wisdom" appeared to conflict with OSM data I came across the Kent
County
Council Highways Gazetteer. It contains a "complete" list of roads in
Kent, including their reference, road number, name, official
classification, parish and length.
It's a PDF file, linked from here:
http://www.kent.gov.uk/roads_and_transport/transport_policies/road_status/adopted_and_private_streets.aspx
I would like to use this document to classify minor roads correctly
as
"unclassified" or "tertiary", add the official road number, at
least to
the "tertiary" roads, i.e. C-roads, and possibly "access=permissive"
where the road is a privately maintained road (assuming unhindered
access etc. as described on the Wiki).
There is no sign of any OS-encumbrances; there is no real location
information in the file. The KCC (together with district councils I
assume) can be considered a fairly authoritative source for this
information.
Would it be OK to derive tagging in this way? Should we get explicit
permission from KCC first? Anyone got any experience with this, or
example emails for this kind of request?
Colin
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