Many thanks - some interesting viewpoints there. I think it is safe to say that things will have improved from 2009, but also fair to admit that some data is not structured in the way that even I would like. Yorkshire is a particular problem for us. The good thing though is that NaPTAN is downloadable on an authority by authority basis and so we have scope for working through issues relatively local basis and perhaps later picking off authorities for individual "auto updates" once we've all agreed what that entails.
On specifics, it is never going to be the case that NaPTAN will come from OSM. However, I'm keen to identify mismatches - missing stops in Swanley might be TfL infrastructure for example, while "stop not present" might represent "custom and practice" stops or virtual points on a hail and ride route. Where we can, we can update data. Looking to the future I am also keen to use OSM for those things that NaPTAN doesn't describe or which there is little will to populate. But that is a whole new discussion for another time. Would anyone who has made edits like to volunteer an area for me to start with? I live in Southend, and have direct contact with SE authorities and indirect contact with SW, EM and EA. Regards Stuart On 31 Jul 2014, at 17:02, "Nick Allen" <nick.allen...@gmail.com<mailto:nick.allen...@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi, I would not wish to see a mass import in my area, but I could see some merit in comparing data 'line by line'. I can remember that in the early days (2009?) there were bus stops on the data at the time that NaPTAN was imported. Some were sensibly merged, but some were deleted before the value of merging was realised (I was probably as ignorant of how to sort it out properly in those days, as anyone else, so I don't think a witch hunt will help). Since then, I've made many cycle surveys in my area, and have updated NaPTAN stops to the extent that anything I have edited in the past is now in the right place & the tags will be correct. However, some of the imported data was so inaccurate, that it was difficult to tell whether it should be moved North, South East or West, to where the nearest actual stop was. As a result of this, it is quite possible that there are stops shown in the right place with the correct tags concerning shelters, benches, tactile paving, name of stop, timetables or bus route references displayed, etc, but added to a NaPTAN reference which new data would show to actually be elsewhere. The only way of improving this would be a line by line comparison, with perhaps the transfer of a reference from new NaPTAN data, to the existing OSM data. If I appear in the history of the bus stop (Ctrl+h using JOSM), then there is a bus stop in that exact location. I suspect that this is true of many stops elsewhere, so some cautionary line by line merging is going to be needed. I use the NOVAM - viewer from http://b3e.net/novam/ to check what needs doing, (Birmingham colour scheme suits my purpose). If you use this & zoom into Swanley, Kent (just off J3 of M25), you will find there are several stops which I have created, for which there is no NaPTAN data in the current database. It would obviously be sensible to add that data if you have it - just don't move the stop or change the other tags I've added please. You'll also see that I have marked some bus stops as 'not physically present'...... I think most mappers have worked from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Merging_NaPTAN_and_OSM_data (history shows this was last updated in 2011 with most of the updates from 2009), but there are more recent articles at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_Transport, and I'm not sure of what the current position is as the 'goal posts kept moving!' Some sensible consultation aiming towards a goal we can understand and achieve would be good, because I personally just reached the stage where I made sure the bus stops were in the correct place with the right tags, and left the routes part completed. I can't offer to spend time importing on a line by line basis - I'm currently trying to get Ebola areas mapped in Africa! If I can help in other ways, let me know - it makes sense to me to present the data in a way it can actually be used by someone! Regards Nick (Tallguy) On 31/07/14 15:47, Chris Hill wrote: The NaPTAN data was imported for Hull and East Yorkshire at my request. I quickly realised that the data was of variable quality and resurveyed the ~1300 bus stops in Hull. Having corrected a large percentage of the stops, I informed the Hull council team, at their request, who then ignored me. I would not want any NaPTAN data re-imported in this area unless I was sure the quality has very substantially improved. Some working relationship with the council team who maintain the data would help too. Cheers, Chris, osm user: chillly On 31 July 2014 15:15:18 GMT+01:00, Stuart Reynolds <stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk><mailto:stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote: Hi, This is a spin off from the recent thread about imports, because I wanted to specifically talk about NaPTAN imports. Having briefly scanned the various wiki pages, I get the impression that the NaPTAN data was imported, once, in 2009. What I can't see, or haven't found, is any discussion about how & how often this data is updated. NaPTAN (and associated NPTG) is a live data set, and is changing continually as bus stops are brought into use (e.g. new developments) and taken out of service. As I think I have mentioned, one of the reasons that I am now on this group is because of the adoption of OSM by a number of traveline regions, whose members are the very local authorities that create and maintain the NaPTAN data (including Nottingham/Nottinghamshire, since that was mentioned in the earlier thread). We therefore have an interest in making sure that the stop data on OSM is as up to date as the mapping. Is there an appetite within the community to maintain and update this data? And if so, how would we go about it, and how often might it be updated? For the record, the data set is change dated, and deleted records are retained in the data for reference until (eventually) being archived (although even then the stops are still contained in a separate archive file). So I think that the process of updating can be made a) robust, and b) reversible. Regards, Stuart ________________________________ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org<mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb _______________________________________________ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org<mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb -- Nick Volunteer 'Tallguy' for https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy Treasurer, website & Bonus Ball admin for http://www.6thswanleyscouts.org.uk/ (treasu...@6thswanleyscouts.org.uk<mailto:treasu...@6thswanleyscouts.org.uk>) _______________________________________________ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org<mailto:Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
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