Joseph, I'm not stuck on class 27, but as you say, that fits the
definition on the wiki. I should probably look for other specific
protection in the attributes and translate that somehow. Mostly it's
just grazing and recreation land. Anything such as wilderness or
monument would definitely be tagged as such.
Martijn, Gaia is not available on a Garmin, or on a PC. It also costs
$40 a yr. Why do you trust Gaia as an authoritative source? How
often do they update from government sources? BLM boundaries do not
change very often. Probably less often than city/town boundaries.
For an authoritative source, I have national forest maps that are 10 -
20 years old. A download today from a federal database is way better
than that and in 5 years will probably still be just as good. In
relatively sparsely populated areas, on the ground verification does not
work as well as it does in the city. If we make OSM more useful for more
people then more folks will get involved.
Michael, You bring up some good questions which I don't have the
answer for yet. I would get started with what you call the low road,
state sized or smaller pieces at a time. A quick look at the boundaries
around me show none that follow a watercourse or a ridge, they are all
straight lines and and square corners. The extraneous ways at state
boundaries look like artifacts from cutting up a larger database into
state size chunks. There was no polygon, or a skinny polygon associated
with those artifacts. I'm guessing that there is BLM land in the
adjacent state.
Dave, Thanks for being a voice of reason!
Brad
On 1/6/19 3:36 AM, Dave Swarthout wrote:
Ian Dees wrote:
>"Those things shouldn't be in OSM either"
Are you implying that because such boundaries (National Forests,
National Parks and National Wildlife Refuges) are non-verifiable by
OSM mappers they don't belong in OSM? If so, wow!
I live in Alaska where about 60% of the land area is included in one
or the other of these categories and I firmly believe they must be
included in OSM. No, the boundaries aren't verifiable nor are they
particularly accurate but actually nothing we put into OSM is accurate
within several meters at best. If I add a National Wildlife Refuge
having a total area of thousands of sq. kilometers and boundary errors
amount to a few dozen sq km, for example, that doesn't bother me one
bit. At least it's there for people to see. I'm really not looking for
super accuracy; what I want are the visible outlines of those
protected areas, be they rough estimates or not. OSM makes no warranty
concerning accuracy. If you want to build a home near a NP or NWR
boundary you'll need a surveyor; our rough boundaries won't serve for
that purpose.
Can you elaborate on your statement, please?
Dave
On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 2:05 PM Martijn van Exel <m...@rtijn.org
<mailto:m...@rtijn.org>> wrote:
Brad — I make use of BLM / NPS / NF boundary data a lot too. I use
Gaia GPS for this, which overlays this data nicely with what’s in
OSM[1]. There are lots of other outdoor apps that do the same. I
prefer this data live outside of OSM as well for similar reasons
as Ian stated. Knowing whether land is public or private or
whether it’s inside or outside a NP, is important to me when I’m
in the outdoors. I would much rather rely on an authoritative
definition of these boundaries, than on whatever happens to be in
OSM. Since there is no on-the-ground verifiability, boundary data
is prone to growing stale, as you can see happening with census
place boundaries. Unreliable data in this case is worse than no
data at all.
If you’re looking to make a great impact on the map as an outdoors
user, I would suggest mapping things you know and things you
observe when you’re out there. Countless times have I been out in
the middle of nowhere, to find that some mapper before me added a
landmark, a water source, or something else that really helped me.
That is what I like to pay forward.
Martijn
[1] https://www.gaiagps.com/offroad/#maps
On Jan 5, 2019, at 8:43 PM, brad <bradha...@fastmail.com
<mailto:bradha...@fastmail.com>> wrote:
Ian,
I want to import this data because I think its important for a
complete map. We have national forest, wilderness and national
park boundaries in OSM! This is no different. If you look at
many maps they show all of them.
I'd like it to show up on any map that I use. I'm working on a
'better' version for garmin using mkgmap. I hope it gets
rendered with OpenAndroMaps too. I haven't used the onine
osm.org <http://osm.org> map very much.
I am excited to participate and improve OSM and in my opinion
this is a big gap in the OSM database. Where I live, we don't
use OSM for building footprints, we use it to find our way in the
national forest, the BLM land and the national parks. It's very
useful to know what is public or private land.
Brad
On 1/5/19 8:19 PM, Ian Dees wrote:
Hi Brad, thanks for proposing this import and posting it here.
I would strongly prefer that we not import boundaries like this
into OSM. Boundaries of all sorts are almost impossible to
verify with OSM's "on the ground" rule, but BLM boundaries in
particular are such an edge case (they have no other analog in
the world, really) and almost never have apparent markings on
the ground to check. Since these boundaries aren't visible, this
data can never be improved by an OpenStreetMap contributor. The
boundaries are defined by the government, and any sort of change
to them would make them diverge from the official source.
But having said that, I'm curious why you wanted to import this
data? Did you want to have it show up on the osm.org
<http://osm.org/> map? Are you trying to build a custom map? Or
are you excited to participate and improve OSM? If it's the
latter, there's lots of other data that is a better fit to
import into OSM: address points and building footprints come to
mind, for example.
-Ian
On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 9:03 PM brad <bradha...@fastmail.com
<mailto:bradha...@fastmail.com>> wrote:
I'd like to import BLM (US Bureau of Land Management)
boundaries into
OSM. This is not an automated import as you can see from
my workflow.
Workflow:
Download shape file from PADUS (1 state at a time):
https://gapanalysis.usgs.gov/padus/data/download/
Load into Qgis and filter for BLM boundaries
Clean up as necessary (there are some extraneous ways at state
boundaries & elsewhere)
Convert to OSM with ogr2osm and the following tags
tags.update({'type':'boundary'})
tags.update({'boundary':'protected_area'})
tags.update({'operator':'BLM'})
tags.update({'ownership':'national'})
tags.update({'protect_class':'27'})
tags.update({'source':'US BLM'})
use the shapefile attribute 'Unit_Nm' as the name
Import with JOSM
The San Luis unit (CO) is here for your inspection.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxv5gny2396ewki/sanLuisBLM.osm?dl=0
Comments?
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--
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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