Hi Lloyd, I'm running Windows 10 and I guess I was switched to the 64-bit Firefox as well.
Best, Rod -----Original Message----- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail....@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk Sent: October 9, 2017 1:46 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> Cc: Lloyd Rasmussen <l...@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility Yes, I did try ctrl-N to open a new window. And now I have a hint as to the problem. I restarted with JAWS 18 and went to the release notes for version 56.0.1. It was released today. One of the changes, right up front, is that if a 32-bit version was running under 64-bit Windows 7, they switch you to the 64-bit version of Firefox. I think another nail has been hammered into the Window-Eyes coffin. Having said that, there are still plenty of things you can do with Window-Eyes. Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD http://lras.home.sprynet.com -----Original Message----- From: Nick Sarames via Talk Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 1:32 PM To: Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk Cc: Nick Sarames Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility Did you try the work-around (control-n)? On 10/9/2017 1:29 PM, Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk wrote: > Maybe that's what happened, but I'm not sure of that. > A new 56.01 update was available when I checked this morning. I am going > to reboot and try again, but my first finding with this new minor update > is that browse mode is no longer available anywhere in Firefox. You can > still read the menus and can tab to items, but are not even offered the > possibility of opening browse mode with Window-Eyes. The plot thickens! > > > > Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD > http://lras.home.sprynet.com > -----Original Message----- From: Rod Hutton via Talk > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 1:24 PM > To: Window-Eyes Discussion List > Cc: Rod Hutton > Subject: RE: Latest Firefox, and accessibility > > Hi David, > > I can certainly confirm that your workaround, namely, to open another > tab, wherein Window-Eyes works as before. > My guess is that, on startup, the set file is not associated with the > browser window, but, rather, with the Firefox application window. > I've run into this problem before, when, all of a sudden, focus got lost > and stuck in the application window, since this is all I heard when I > read the title bar. > This hadn't happened for some time, and we'll see what happens now that > I can begin testing it again. > Thanks so much for your effort in diagnosing this problem, and we'll > report back our experiences. > > All the best, > > Rod > > -----Original Message----- > From: Talk > [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail....@lists.window-eyes.com] On > Behalf Of David via Talk > Sent: October 8, 2017 8:31 AM > To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>; Lloyd > Rasmussen <l...@sprynet.com> > Cc: David <trailerda...@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility > > Seems this is going to be the kind of never-ending story. > > > This morning, I had to restart my computer for some reason. After > rebooting, all the sudden I do see the same behavior in Firefox, as > reported by others. You can turn off Browse mode, and tab around the > website. You can reach all the menus. But with browse mode turned on, > there is absolutely no luck in having WinEyes read anything to you. > > > Now, i would not let this throw me off. I have been experimenting quite > a bit here now, and here is at least some kind of a workaround. Wonder > if some of you - who have trouble with Firefox 56 - please could report > back if you see the same behavior. > > > 1. Open Firefox. > > 2. Open any website of your choice, by typing in the address in the > address bar, and hitting enter, just like you have always done. > > 3. The site comes up, but you cannot navigate it with WinEyes. > > 4. Try turn off Browse mode, and now use tab. Do you hear the different > links and controls spoken? > > > Then the workaround. > > 1. with all firefox windows closed, open Firefox, and direct it to any > website you might like. > > 2. Hit Ctrl-N, and a new session of Firefox will open in a separate > window. > > 3. In this new window, open any website you desire - even the very same > one you opened in the first window. > > 3. The website in the new ((or second) window, can be navigated just > like ever before. > > 4. Go back to the first window you had opened with Firefox, and close it > with F4. > > 5. From here, keep navigating Firefox as much as you like, in the newest > window. You even can open as many windows and tabs as you want, and > WinEyes seems to work just fine. > > > The ones of you, who have been able to work with Firefox 56 so far, have > you rebooted your computer after updating to this version? If not, I am > starting to wondering if there could be something going on. > > > Why I had to reboot my computer this morning, was because I had started > Jaws, and it reported that an update for version 18.04 was available. > After updating, it requested the computer rebooted. > > > Funny thing is, that yesterday my WinEyes worked perfectly well with > Firefox 56. This morning, updating Jaws and then rebooting the computer, > my WinEyes starts to have trouble with Firefox. > > > Sure, it all would be coincidents, wouldn't it? And of course, we could > go on asking if anyone who are having no trouble with WinEyes in > Firefox, also do not have Jaws installed, or even have not updated their > Jaws version. i would have been willing to uninstall Jaws, just to make > sure there is no cross-over issues, but would that not cause me to use > an extra Jaws installation when reinstalling it on the computer? Or, > does Jaws recognize it has already been installed here before, and hence > abstain from counting the new reinstallation against my three available > installations under the license? I really would have been willing to > say, there would be no way for Jaws to interfere, all the time only > WinEyes is loaded on the computer. But still, it all makes me wonder a > bit. > > > OK, I could live with the extra hazzle, of always opening a Firefox > session, and then hitting Ctrl-n, and start my browsing from the new > session. The thing that now puzzles me, is why things work in the second > session, but never in the first, of Firefox. Could that be due to some > bug in the browser, or is the second session opening with different > settings - deep down in the hundreds of settings of the browser? Wonder > if a report to Mozilla would bring some clarification here, but not sure > where or how to submit any bug report to the Mozilla team. > > > To spin a little bit further on the whole issue, I did try Firefox in > its dedicated safe mode, and there I was able to navigate with WinEyes. > it of course might all be due to some kind of add-on, that troubles > WinEyes in the newest Firefox version. But that all will have to be > determined through intensified further investigation. > > > Till now, these are my findings, and I hope others can contribute with > further findings, confirmations and ideas for solutions. Somehow seems > we have to trace exactly what causes the issue, before we can start > determining if WinEyes and Firefox 56+ can ever be made to work > hand-in-hand. > > > All just for your information. > > > On 10/7/2017 7:02 PM, Evan Reese via Talk wrote: >> That was me, using WE 8.4 on a Windows 7 laptop with Firefox 56.0 32 bit. >> I just had it open and went to three different sites, including the >> BARD site. It works the same as always for me. >> Evan >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk >> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 9:32 AM >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >> Cc: Lloyd Rasmussen >> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility >> >> I am puzzled that someone reported that Firefox 56 worked with >> Win-Eyes 8.4. >> It doesn't work for me with Win-Eyes 9.5.4. >> David, Browse mode is available, but you get nothing but dings when >> you move >> the arrow keys, and no output when you use the Tab or shift-Tab key. >> You can >> read the menus. You can read anything you can tab to while browse mode is >> turned off. Sometimes Firefox.set doesn't seem to load, but even when it >> does, the situation remains the same. >> I'm running Windows 7 64-bit, but the 32-bit version of Firefox is what >> wants to run. I believe I tried disabling add-ons also, with no effect. I >> get most of the same results on a different computer running Windows 10. >> And even if we didn't have trouble with Firefox version 56, we are pretty >> much guaranteed to have trouble with FF 57 which comes out next month. >> I like Firefox, but if I'm going to continue to use it, it will have >> to be >> with NVDA, JAWS or Narrator for Windows 10. >> Everyone should read the latest blog from Marco Zehe to understand >> more of >> what is going on: >> https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-accessibility-on-windows/ >> >> >> >> >> >> Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD >> http://lras.home.sprynet.com >> -----Original Message----- From: David via Talk >> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 8:14 AM >> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >> Cc: David >> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility >> >> Pure guessing here. >> >> >> When the Firefox window comes up, are you able to access the menus? If >> so, Go to Help, and scroll down to >> >> Start with add-ons disabled, >> >> and press Enter. This should let Firefox start in its own safe-mode; >> which btw does have nothing to do with Windows safe-mode. You can read >> more here: >> >> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe-mode >> >> >> >> >> Alternatively, they say you should be able to do it via the start menu. >> >> 1. Press Win-R, and type: >> >> Firefox -safe-mode >> >> (please notice the dashes). >> >> 2. Press Enter, and the Firefox should open in a safe-mode window. >> >> I have not tested either of these aproaches, so take it for what a >> search on the net is worth. >> >> >> I further take it, that you have done the two obvious things: >> >> 1. Make sure Browse mode is turned ON, by pressing Ctrl-Shift-A. I am >> ready to presume, that you will have a message spoken to you, saying: >> >> Browse Mode Is Not Available. >> >> 2. Check that the correct set file is loaded. Press Insert-L, and it >> should say >> >> Firefox.set. >> >> >> To me, it could seem like you have some kind of a message window that >> opens when you open Firefox, and which get the thing stucked. if you >> press Ctrl-Shift-T, does it tell you a website, or does it say >> About:Blank, and then Firefox? Alternatively, does it say something like: >> >> Firefox Message? >> >> If the latter, there is a message on the screen, which you might have >> varying luck in reading. You could try hitting the Ctrl-Shift-W twice, >> to have WinEyes do its most aggressive reading of the full window. >> >> >> >> Even loading NVDA, while you are on the Firefox window, with WinEyes >> still running. What does NVDA do? Is it able to navigate anything, or >> even read any messages to you, that WinEyes was unable to pick up? >> >> >> Lastly, do you have two eyes there? Do they see anything on the screen? >> Like if you load a website, are they able to read the contents? Somwhere >> in the WinEyes control panel - and forgive me for not remembering >> exactly where - I do hold there is a setting for turning on a small >> window, indicating to a sighted person what exactly you are seeing with >> the screen reader. Have never used the feature myself, so not sure how >> helpful it would be. But it might be useful enough to determining if the >> screen reader has gone for a hike in the cyber mountains, due to some >> Firefox food that Eloquence disagrees in. Once you have chased the >> reason for your issue, you might want to hold a KitCat up in front of >> the screen reader, and see if Eloquence could please get into a better >> mood. Smiles. >> >> >> For now, these are my best guesses. Perhaps your reporting back any >> results of the suggestions might help others in guiding you further. >> Since seemingly some users are having issues and others not, it seems >> something in the newer versions of Firefox might be triggering certain >> setups. This could be worth reporting to the Mozilla team, in hope they >> might have some logs that could tell what changes in settings and >> behavior probably causing the issues. But prior to doing any reporting >> to them, it might be worth an attempt in tracing the exact issue. >> >> >> Of course, many might argue that NVDA and Jaws do not have any issues. >> Be as it might. Apparently there must be something that causes WinEyes >> to have its hickups, on certain systems. Could we trace the health >> issue, we might be able to remedy the WinEyes disease. Smiles. >> >> >> Just for the fun of it, in Firefox under Help, try pressing Enter on the >> item that says: >> >> Health Report. >> >> What do you get there? Should give you some technical information. >> Likely nothing important in this case, but just to see if it at all >> could tell anything for further tracing. It at least would report if any >> of your Add-ons have caused Firefox to get an aching toe. In such a >> case, offering it a donut and a cup of coffee for free, might cheer it >> up a bit. Smiles. >> >> >> Sorry for not being of all that much help, and hope you don't mind my >> sense of humor on an early Saturday morning. >> >> >> On 10/7/2017 1:04 PM, bj colt via Talk wrote: >>> Hi David, >>> >>> I followed your instructions but got the same ding noise I get when >>> firefox upgrqades to the latest version. I am running the 32 bit >>> version. >>> >>> I pressed alt d, then f6. The same ding. Like being in an edit box >>> that is stuck there. All I hear is ding. I have uninstalled firefox 3 >>> times since last night and each time firefox has upgraded. Even though >>> I have it set not to upgrade. >>> >>> It is strange how some people aring this phenomenon and others aren't. >>> My friend is running firefox, same version as I am. windows 7. pentium >>> processor, 500 ghz hard drive. 8 gig ram. All very wierd. >>> >>> It does seem like a focus problem but what and why? >>> >>> Live long and prosper, John >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: David via Talk >>> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2017 11:02 AM >>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List ; WE English Mailinglist >>> Cc: David >>> Subject: Re: Latest Firefox, and accessibility >>> >>> Forgot to say, I am still running Windows7 pro 64bit, in case the OS >>> might be the bottleneck. >>> >>> >>> On 10/7/2017 12:01 PM, David via Talk wrote: >>>> I do not want to start a new lengthy arguing over accessibility issues. >>>> Yet, a few days ago, we had a discussion running here, as to the latest >>>> version of Firefox - 56 - which some users had experienced issues with. >>>> >>>> I did not have any intention in running into accessibility issues, and >>>> hence told my Firefox never to update. It is done under tools, Options, >>>> Advanced, and choose the update tab. Nevertheless, this morning when >>>> starting my Firefox, it still updated itself. I got the message on the >>>> screen, that the update was taking place, and though I could say a few >>>> things about a setting in the Firefox options, which apparently is >>>> nothing but useless - I had no choice but to let the update complete >>>> itself. My reasoning was that first it insisted on upgrading, I could >>>> always roll it back afterwards. >>>> >>>> When the upgrading was finished, I checked under Tools, Help, About - >>>> and the current installation says >>>> >>>> Firefox 56.0, 32bit. >>>> >>>> I now have used it for a couple of hours, browsing around, and do >>>> see no >>>> trouble with this version of Firefox, along with the latest (and last) >>>> version of WinEyes, that is, version 9.5.4. >>>> >>>> I do recall there has been a few comments about the 64bit version of >>>> Firefox from the past. And hence i was wondering if the users who told >>>> us not to update to the latest Firefox, due to their accessibility >>>> issues, would happen to be running the 64bit version. >>>> >>>> As an alternative, in attempting to see a reason for some experiencing >>>> trouble in latest version, I do wonder if there could be a focusing >>>> issue. Would any of you, who initially reported the loss of >>>> accessibility in Firefox 56, maybe want to try the following. >>>> 1. Open Firefox, and go to any website. >>>> 2. Press Alt-D, as in Delta. >>>> 3. Press F6. >>>> 4. Try navigating the website. >>>> Are you still unable to perform any action on the page? If so, check >>>> under Help/About,and see if you are running 64- or 32bit version. >>>> Please >>>> note, a 32bit software can be run perfectly well on a 64bit machine, >>>> but >>>> you cannot run a 64bit software on a 32bit computer. Most computers now >>>> aday, are 64bit machines, and yet, often you are encouraged to run the >>>> 32bit software, due to the 64bit technology being more vulnerable for >>>> technical issues. >>>> >>>> This is no attempt in advicing anyone, in their choice of browser or >>>> version. I am just curious why some have reported their systems facing >>>> issues, whereas my system had none. Could it even be there was >>>> something >>>> going wrong in your updating process? Or, could it be due to some of >>>> the >>>> add-ons you have installed under Firefox, and which no longer are >>>> up-to-date, due to the new add-on policy of the Mozilla group? Try >>>> starting your Firefox with all Add-ons disabled, and see if that solves >>>> any issues. >>>> >>>> Really, it would be bad, should a number of users ditch an otherwise >>>> good browser, or abstain from updating, due to some misunderstood >>>> accessibility issues. That's why, I decided to report my findings, >>>> hoping to hear from others who could shed further light on what >>>> possibly >>>> could cause issues for some. Perhaps we even could help them solve >>>> their >>>> issues, and have them back up running the Firefox browser again; even >>>> with last version of WinEyes. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>> >>>> For membership options, visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. >>>> >>>> >>>> For subscription options, visit >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> List archives can be found at >>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/bjcolt%40blueyonder.co.uk. >>> >>> >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. >>> >>> >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> . >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author >> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lras%40sprynet.com. >> >> >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/mentat1%40dslextreme.com. >> >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. >> >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> . >> > > _______________________________________________ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/rod_hutton%40hotmail.com. > > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > _______________________________________________ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lras%40sprynet.com. > > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > _______________________________________________ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/nicksarames%40msn.com. > > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > . > _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lras%40sprynet.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/rod_hutton%40hotmail.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
